Solved Email server options
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@JaredBusch said in Email server options:
@Dashrender said in Email server options:
@JaredBusch said in Email server options:
@Pete-S said in Email server options:
Limiting email storage to save a few dollars on storage is a small cost saving for the IT department but a HUGE cost for the business. How many important emails are lost when the inbox is full? How much time is wasted by the employees when they have to go trough emails and decide what they want to keep?
This is just one example of IT working against the interest of the business. You save $100 in one end but pay $1000 somewhere else.
It's somewhat ridiculous letting users have say 1GB of email storage when their freaking phone has 30 or 60 times as much storage. 1000 users each storing on average 10GB of data will fit on one tiny little 10TB disk. 1000 users each spending 30 minutes deleting old emails will cost a lot more than the storage.
Well his users are not allowed to have work email on their phones either.
But allowing people to just keep everything is a huge waste as previously noted. It is also likely going to cause legal problems when the company gets sued
And 10 TB of storage is still hugely expensive. I just had 4 TB usable (RAID 10, so puchase 8 TB) and the cost was $3100. That's nearly double the price of server hardware itself.
I'm not saying it's expensive, but it's definitely not cheap.
You are doing something wrong. Disks are not that expensive.
Maybe SSDs in RAID?
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Samsung EVO 970 1TB for $250. If you want 4TB of usable and bought 8 of these for RAID 10 it would be $2,000.
So if you are getting enterprise drives from the server vendor themselves, I could see $3,200.
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Now if you did RAID 5 you'd only need five of them. So more like $1,250.
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@JaredBusch said in Email server options:
@Dashrender said in Email server options:
@JaredBusch said in Email server options:
@Pete-S said in Email server options:
Limiting email storage to save a few dollars on storage is a small cost saving for the IT department but a HUGE cost for the business. How many important emails are lost when the inbox is full? How much time is wasted by the employees when they have to go trough emails and decide what they want to keep?
This is just one example of IT working against the interest of the business. You save $100 in one end but pay $1000 somewhere else.
It's somewhat ridiculous letting users have say 1GB of email storage when their freaking phone has 30 or 60 times as much storage. 1000 users each storing on average 10GB of data will fit on one tiny little 10TB disk. 1000 users each spending 30 minutes deleting old emails will cost a lot more than the storage.
Well his users are not allowed to have work email on their phones either.
But allowing people to just keep everything is a huge waste as previously noted. It is also likely going to cause legal problems when the company gets sued
And 10 TB of storage is still hugely expensive. I just had 4 TB usable (RAID 10, so puchase 8 TB) and the cost was $3100. That's nearly double the price of server hardware itself.
I'm not saying it's expensive, but it's definitely not cheap.
You are doing something wrong. Disks are not that expensive.
Here is the line item from Yonah
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@scottalanmiller said in Email server options:
Now if you did RAID 5 you'd only need five of them. So more like $1,250.
Here's the RAID 5 SSD option
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I suppose you're both going to tell me that I don't need to use enterprise class drives... or that PCM is screwing me.
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@Dashrender said in Email server options:
I suppose you're both going to tell me that I don't need to use enterprise class drives... or that PCM is screwing me.
Nope, I think Jared is just not considering the real world cost of SSD storage with enterprise support. I think he likely was thinking of non-SSD storage for email. That is what might make more sense, email is rarely that sensitive to throughput for its core storage.
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@scottalanmiller said in Email server options:
@Dashrender said in Email server options:
I suppose you're both going to tell me that I don't need to use enterprise class drives... or that PCM is screwing me.
Nope, I think Jared is just not considering the real world cost of SSD storage with enterprise support. I think he likely was thinking of non-SSD storage for email. That is what might make more sense, email is rarely that sensitive to throughput for its core storage.
Jared is just thinking that @Dashrender does not know what he is buying.
The listed drive is a 2.5", 12GB/s, 1TB, 7.2k SAS (but I assume NL SAS because 7.2K) drive.
Xbyte has that same "Dell" drive for $249.
Does he need 12GB/s? Does his RAID card backplane support that?
Why get 1TB drives in the first place? Very often that is more expensive than larger drives.
Last time I bought new drives, I requested 1TB, but the VAR said, that 2TB were cheaper, so I bought those.
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@JaredBusch said in Email server options:
@scottalanmiller said in Email server options:
@Dashrender said in Email server options:
I suppose you're both going to tell me that I don't need to use enterprise class drives... or that PCM is screwing me.
Nope, I think Jared is just not considering the real world cost of SSD storage with enterprise support. I think he likely was thinking of non-SSD storage for email. That is what might make more sense, email is rarely that sensitive to throughput for its core storage.
Jared is just thinking that @Dashrender does not know what he is buying.
The listed drive is a 2.5", 12GB/s, 1TB, 7.2k SAS (but I assume NL SAS because 7.2K) drive.
Xbyte has that same "Dell" drive for $249.
Does he need 12GB/s? Does his RAID card backplane support that?
Why get 1TB drives in the first place? Very often that is more expensive than larger drives.
Last time I bought new drives, I requested 1TB, but the VAR said, that 2TB were cheaper, so I bought those.
Oh, I missed that it was two different pictures. I thought he had SSDs at that price. Yeah, there are cheaper ways to do spinning drivers.
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@scottalanmiller said in Email server options:
@JaredBusch said in Email server options:
@scottalanmiller said in Email server options:
@Dashrender said in Email server options:
I suppose you're both going to tell me that I don't need to use enterprise class drives... or that PCM is screwing me.
Nope, I think Jared is just not considering the real world cost of SSD storage with enterprise support. I think he likely was thinking of non-SSD storage for email. That is what might make more sense, email is rarely that sensitive to throughput for its core storage.
Jared is just thinking that @Dashrender does not know what he is buying.
The listed drive is a 2.5", 12GB/s, 1TB, 7.2k SAS (but I assume NL SAS because 7.2K) drive.
Xbyte has that same "Dell" drive for $249.
Does he need 12GB/s? Does his RAID card backplane support that?
Why get 1TB drives in the first place? Very often that is more expensive than larger drives.
Last time I bought new drives, I requested 1TB, but the VAR said, that 2TB were cheaper, so I bought those.
Oh, I missed that it was two different pictures. I thought he had SSDs at that price. Yeah, there are cheaper ways to do spinning drivers.
I showed two options - the winchesters and the SSDs.
I only wanted to get a price comparison for SSDs - and at this price point, the minor extra cost would likely be worth the performance boost...
But if 2 TB drives are really cheaper - of course my vendor didn't tell me that possibility - and the price divide is greater, then I'd go with the 2 TB drives.
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I would also count Zimbra NE and Zimbra free + Zimlets. That backup and push notifications are a huge boon, not to mention being able to delegate admin tasks per domain (I manage a company with 15 domains on a single Zimbra server)
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Always go with 3.5" storage when you need some volume but not SSD speed.
Ultrastar 12TB 7.2K SAS-3 drives are about $400 each. 12TB RAID-1 becomes about $800 for 12TB storage. That's 6.7 cents per GB of data. -
@scottalanmiller said in Email server options:
Samsung EVO 970 1TB for $250. If you want 4TB of usable and bought 8 of these for RAID 10 it would be $2,000.
So if you are getting enterprise drives from the server vendor themselves, I could see $3,200.
Would you trust running your business on those EVO drives? I mean I would assume they would work, But enterprise class drives do have some value, but perhaps just not enough value?
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@Dashrender said in Email server options:
@scottalanmiller said in Email server options:
Samsung EVO 970 1TB for $250. If you want 4TB of usable and bought 8 of these for RAID 10 it would be $2,000.
So if you are getting enterprise drives from the server vendor themselves, I could see $3,200.
Would you trust running your business on those EVO drives? I mean I would assume they would work, But enterprise class drives do have some value, but perhaps just not enough value?
Prices are not that different between enthusiast consumer drives and enterprise drives.
We pay about $200 for Samsung Enterprise SSD PM983 960GB, NVMe M.2.Also, there is also almost no point in striping on NVMe. So you buy larger drives if you want more storage.
For about 4TB it would be the 2x PM983 3.84TB, NVMe M.2 @ $700 in RAID-1. So about $1400 or so, give or take.That's a few hundred less for an enterprise solution compared to 8 of the consumer drives.
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@Dashrender said in Email server options:
@scottalanmiller said in Email server options:
Samsung EVO 970 1TB for $250. If you want 4TB of usable and bought 8 of these for RAID 10 it would be $2,000.
So if you are getting enterprise drives from the server vendor themselves, I could see $3,200.
Would you trust running your business on those EVO drives? I mean I would assume they would work, But enterprise class drives do have some value, but perhaps just not enough value?
Sure
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@scottalanmiller said in Email server options:
@Dashrender said in Email server options:
@scottalanmiller said in Email server options:
Samsung EVO 970 1TB for $250. If you want 4TB of usable and bought 8 of these for RAID 10 it would be $2,000.
So if you are getting enterprise drives from the server vendor themselves, I could see $3,200.
Would you trust running your business on those EVO drives? I mean I would assume they would work, But enterprise class drives do have some value, but perhaps just not enough value?
Sure
Split all that shit to a new thread please.
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@Curtis said in Email server options:
Mailcow offers domain admins as well, so everyone could still have complete control of their domain.
Create accounts, alias, etc.
ok, not liking mailcow because of this. I'm sorry, but I need something with something more than one person behind it.
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@JaredBusch more than one person it seems.
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@JaredBusch it’s been around since 2015 - https://www.lowendtalk.com/discussion/58855/mailcow-a-complete-mail-server-suite
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@Curtis said in Email server options:
@JaredBusch it’s been around since 2015 - https://www.lowendtalk.com/discussion/58855/mailcow-a-complete-mail-server-suite
Lots of things have been around a long time. That does not mean I will use them.
Jury is still out on Mailcow.
