What Are You Doing Right Now
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@dafyre said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@coliver said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@dashrender If they aren't considering all of this I highly doubt they have calculated iops too. I don't get triggered a lot but I feel like we're setting ourselves up to fail.
Your company definitely is. You should mention these things.
They need to take a step back and do something like - run DPACK for a few weeks, use that information to build the servers that will be in the summer, and they will probably be overkill for the DAG situation.
I don't know how these guys are going to react to me involving myself in this process but I'd rather deal with social consequences than IT consequences
That's a terrible way to think of it. IT does not override businesses processes.
Can you elaborate? I'm not sure how I'm overriding a business practice.
You're injecting personal bias into a management decision. That's kind of the definition of overriding business practices.
Injecting personal bias or suggesting things closer to industry best practices?
I could see Personal Bias if it was a Raid 6 vs Raid 10... But as has become the norm around here... If it's not SSDs, RAID 5 really is not a good suggestion any more.
It's a bias for the more correct option, which everyone is biased (in favor of or against) when it comes to everything
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@coliver said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@dashrender If they aren't considering all of this I highly doubt they have calculated iops too. I don't get triggered a lot but I feel like we're setting ourselves up to fail.
Your company definitely is. You should mention these things.
They need to take a step back and do something like - run DPACK for a few weeks, use that information to build the servers that will be in the summer, and they will probably be overkill for the DAG situation.
I don't know how these guys are going to react to me involving myself in this process but I'd rather deal with social consequences than IT consequences
That's a terrible way to think of it. IT does not override businesses processes.
Can you elaborate? I'm not sure how I'm overriding a business practice.
You're injecting personal bias into a management decision. That's kind of the definition of overriding business practices.
How is this a personal bias?
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@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@dafyre said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@dafyre said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@Dashrender The server is on it's way out anyway so it solves two problems but I'm really put out.
Were you actually in that meeting, or did just you just happen to hear it as you walked by?
My desk is directly next to their office so I hear everything
Perhaps you should mention it to them... "By the way, I heard you talking about raid 5..." and then explain to them why it's a bad idea?
Government, it being a bad idea was probably the point.
If you know that to be the case, then fine - but damn that' horrible just to assume it to be the case.
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@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@dafyre said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@dafyre said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@Dashrender The server is on it's way out anyway so it solves two problems but I'm really put out.
Were you actually in that meeting, or did just you just happen to hear it as you walked by?
My desk is directly next to their office so I hear everything
Perhaps you should mention it to them... "By the way, I heard you talking about raid 5..." and then explain to them why it's a bad idea?
Government, it being a bad idea was probably the point.
If you know that to be the case, then fine - but damn that' horrible just to assume it to be the case.
@scottalanmiller just assumes that most IT people are idiots and goes straight to worst case, ha ha.
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@dafyre said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@dafyre said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@dafyre said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@Dashrender The server is on it's way out anyway so it solves two problems but I'm really put out.
Were you actually in that meeting, or did just you just happen to hear it as you walked by?
My desk is directly next to their office so I hear everything
Perhaps you should mention it to them... "By the way, I heard you talking about raid 5..." and then explain to them why it's a bad idea?
Government, it being a bad idea was probably the point.
If you know that to be the case, then fine - but damn that' horrible just to assume it to be the case.
@scottalanmiller just assumes that most IT people are idiots and goes straight to worst case, ha ha.
Well in this case he tossed government into as well - and while sure, often the stories coming from governments is horrible, it's just bad to assume they will always be so.
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@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@dafyre said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@dafyre said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@dafyre said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@Dashrender The server is on it's way out anyway so it solves two problems but I'm really put out.
Were you actually in that meeting, or did just you just happen to hear it as you walked by?
My desk is directly next to their office so I hear everything
Perhaps you should mention it to them... "By the way, I heard you talking about raid 5..." and then explain to them why it's a bad idea?
Government, it being a bad idea was probably the point.
If you know that to be the case, then fine - but damn that' horrible just to assume it to be the case.
@scottalanmiller just assumes that most IT people are idiots and goes straight to worst case, ha ha.
Well in this case he tossed government into as well - and while sure, often the stories coming from governments is horrible, it's just bad to assume they will always be so.
I mean, he's insinuating it's intentional too. I have few resources today I guess because I'm more inclined to agree with him in this moment. It's a sad day.
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@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
Isn't one of the strenghts of virtualization that you can allocate resources in a way where wasted resources are at the very least greatly reduced?
At a physical level, that's sometimes true. They used to say the same thing about operating systems, though. This can be a licensing nightmare though.
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Re-watching the Professor Messer Comptia Network+ videos from his website
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@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
Isn't one of the strenghts of virtualization that you can allocate resources in a way where wasted resources are at the very least greatly reduced?
At a physical level, that's sometimes true. They used to say the same thing about operating systems, though. This can be a licensing nightmare though.
Exactly - remember, Windows can only move between hosts once every 90 days. So assuming you have a 3 node cluster, if you want a single VM to be able to seamless move between all three servers based on load, then you need three Windows server licenses for that one VM. You could also license all three servers with DataCenter Licenses, which allows for unlimited VMs on each host, and depending on the number of VMs that is worth while, but that number is pretty high for most SMBs as DC licensing starts at $5K per server and goes up depending on the number of cores.
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@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
Isn't one of the strenghts of virtualization that you can allocate resources in a way where wasted resources are at the very least greatly reduced?
At a physical level, that's sometimes true. They used to say the same thing about operating systems, though. This can be a licensing nightmare though.
Exactly - remember, Windows can only move between hosts once every 90 days. So assuming you have a 3 node cluster, if you want a single VM to be able to seamless move between all three servers based on load, then you need three Windows server licenses for that one VM. You could also license all three servers with DataCenter Licenses, which allows for unlimited VMs on each host, and depending on the number of VMs that is worth while, but that number is pretty high for most SMBs as DC licensing starts at $5K per server and goes up depending on the number of cores.
We have DC Licensing
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@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@dashrender If they aren't considering all of this I highly doubt they have calculated iops too. I don't get triggered a lot but I feel like we're setting ourselves up to fail.
Your company definitely is. You should mention these things.
They need to take a step back and do something like - run DPACK for a few weeks, use that information to build the servers that will be in the summer, and they will probably be overkill for the DAG situation.
I don't know how these guys are going to react to me involving myself in this process but I'd rather deal with social consequences than IT consequences
That's a terrible way to think of it. IT does not override businesses processes.
Can you elaborate? I'm not sure how I'm overriding a business practice.
There is no such thing as an IT consequence. And you are using the term social consequences to mean business reaction to your involvement. You are feeling the need to override what the business wants to do. If they don't want to hear it, it's not your concern. The consequences are not yours. If the business cares about X and you think Y is what IT wants, IT is wrong. Only the desires of the business matter, nothing that IT "feels".
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@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
We have DC Licensing
Well that's a start - but still doesn't imply you'll get the gains you're might be thinking.
i.e. let's assume you have two servers that are spec'ed correctly to run all loads on one server. Splitting the load over two hosts doesn't really gain you anything performance wise. Uptime wise it gives you a little - i.e. if one host dies, the VMs on the other will be online the whole time, while the other move to the new host.
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@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
We have DC Licensing
Well that's a start - but still doesn't imply you'll get the gains you're might be thinking.
i.e. let's assume you have two servers that are spec'ed correctly to run all loads on one server. Splitting the load over two hosts doesn't really gain you anything performance wise. Uptime wise it gives you a little - i.e. if one host dies, the VMs on the other will be online the whole time, while the other move to the new host.
I'm not expecting huge performance gains though. I just think there is a better way to achieve hardware redundancy than what they are planning which doesn't involve wasting a lot of resources.
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@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
We have DC Licensing
Well that's a start - but still doesn't imply you'll get the gains you're might be thinking.
i.e. let's assume you have two servers that are spec'ed correctly to run all loads on one server. Splitting the load over two hosts doesn't really gain you anything performance wise. Uptime wise it gives you a little - i.e. if one host dies, the VMs on the other will be online the whole time, while the other move to the new host.
I'm not expecting huge performance gains though. I just think there is a better way to achieve hardware redundancy than what they are planning which doesn't involve wasting a lot of resources.
Where do you see the wasted resources?
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@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
We have DC Licensing
Well that's a start - but still doesn't imply you'll get the gains you're might be thinking.
i.e. let's assume you have two servers that are spec'ed correctly to run all loads on one server. Splitting the load over two hosts doesn't really gain you anything performance wise. Uptime wise it gives you a little - i.e. if one host dies, the VMs on the other will be online the whole time, while the other move to the new host.
I'm not expecting huge performance gains though. I just think there is a better way to achieve hardware redundancy than what they are planning which doesn't involve wasting a lot of resources.
Where do you see the wasted resources?
He has a second server doing nothing but being a replica. He is calling that a waste. The point is hardware redundancy you're always going to waste resources are used because you have redundant hardware that's the point of the word redundant.
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@JaredBusch said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
We have DC Licensing
Well that's a start - but still doesn't imply you'll get the gains you're might be thinking.
i.e. let's assume you have two servers that are spec'ed correctly to run all loads on one server. Splitting the load over two hosts doesn't really gain you anything performance wise. Uptime wise it gives you a little - i.e. if one host dies, the VMs on the other will be online the whole time, while the other move to the new host.
I'm not expecting huge performance gains though. I just think there is a better way to achieve hardware redundancy than what they are planning which doesn't involve wasting a lot of resources.
Where do you see the wasted resources?
He has a second server doing nothing but being a replica. He is calling that a waste. The point is hardware redundancy you're always going to waste resources are used because you have redundant hardware that's the point of the word redundant.
Yeah - I was looking for him to say this and come to this conclusion on his own. Realizing that his concern was really the point in having the extra server in the first place.
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@JaredBusch said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
We have DC Licensing
Well that's a start - but still doesn't imply you'll get the gains you're might be thinking.
i.e. let's assume you have two servers that are spec'ed correctly to run all loads on one server. Splitting the load over two hosts doesn't really gain you anything performance wise. Uptime wise it gives you a little - i.e. if one host dies, the VMs on the other will be online the whole time, while the other move to the new host.
I'm not expecting huge performance gains though. I just think there is a better way to achieve hardware redundancy than what they are planning which doesn't involve wasting a lot of resources.
Where do you see the wasted resources?
He has a second server doing nothing but being a replica. He is calling that a waste. The point is hardware redundancy you're always going to waste resources are used because you have redundant hardware that's the point of the word redundant.
The new hosts are many times more powerful/greater capacity than what we currently have. As an example, If we're using 128 GB of memory with very little expected growth over the next 10 years there is no reason to buy 256 GB of memory. That would mean half of the memory would be "wasted" if it's just sitting there not being utilized. Where as we can cluster and use any of the resources that would normally be wasted right?
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@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@JaredBusch said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
We have DC Licensing
Well that's a start - but still doesn't imply you'll get the gains you're might be thinking.
i.e. let's assume you have two servers that are spec'ed correctly to run all loads on one server. Splitting the load over two hosts doesn't really gain you anything performance wise. Uptime wise it gives you a little - i.e. if one host dies, the VMs on the other will be online the whole time, while the other move to the new host.
I'm not expecting huge performance gains though. I just think there is a better way to achieve hardware redundancy than what they are planning which doesn't involve wasting a lot of resources.
Where do you see the wasted resources?
He has a second server doing nothing but being a replica. He is calling that a waste. The point is hardware redundancy you're always going to waste resources are used because you have redundant hardware that's the point of the word redundant.
The new hosts are many times more powerful/greater capacity than what we currently have. As an example, If we're using 128 GB of memory with very little expected growth over the next 10 years there is no reason to buy 256 GB of memory. That would mean half of the memory would be "wasted" if it's just sitting there not being utilized. Where as we can cluster and use any of the resources that would normally be wasted right?
what are you wanting to cluster? Use a real example, perhaps then we'll see where you are trying to go.
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@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
We have DC Licensing
Well that's a start - but still doesn't imply you'll get the gains you're might be thinking.
i.e. let's assume you have two servers that are spec'ed correctly to run all loads on one server. Splitting the load over two hosts doesn't really gain you anything performance wise. Uptime wise it gives you a little - i.e. if one host dies, the VMs on the other will be online the whole time, while the other move to the new host.
I'm not expecting huge performance gains though. I just think there is a better way to achieve hardware redundancy than what they are planning which doesn't involve wasting a lot of resources.
Redundancy and waste are kind of the same term. If it isn't wasted, it's not redundant. More or less.
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@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@JaredBusch said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
We have DC Licensing
Well that's a start - but still doesn't imply you'll get the gains you're might be thinking.
i.e. let's assume you have two servers that are spec'ed correctly to run all loads on one server. Splitting the load over two hosts doesn't really gain you anything performance wise. Uptime wise it gives you a little - i.e. if one host dies, the VMs on the other will be online the whole time, while the other move to the new host.
I'm not expecting huge performance gains though. I just think there is a better way to achieve hardware redundancy than what they are planning which doesn't involve wasting a lot of resources.
Where do you see the wasted resources?
He has a second server doing nothing but being a replica. He is calling that a waste. The point is hardware redundancy you're always going to waste resources are used because you have redundant hardware that's the point of the word redundant.
The new hosts are many times more powerful/greater capacity than what we currently have. As an example, If we're using 128 GB of memory with very little expected growth over the next 10 years there is no reason to buy 256 GB of memory. That would mean half of the memory would be "wasted" if it's just sitting there not being utilized. Where as we can cluster and use any of the resources that would normally be wasted right?
Of course it would be wasted. If you cluster, half of your resources are idle in case the other half fail. If half of the resources are not wasted, and something fails, where would it go?
