Is Open Source Really So Much More Secure By Nature

stacksofplates

@DustinB3403 said in Is Open Source Really So Much More Secure By Nature:

I don't know that you shouldn't include SBC's in those numbers because of how they exclusive operate a full desktop experience and pretty much everything a user could need on a rather extreme budget.

But it is not a traditional desktop by any stretch with a motherboard, cpu, ram and generally speaking expansion modules - PCI, ePCI etc.

He made it abundantly clear he only meant laptops. If it's not a laptop it's not counted. SBC's are not laptops, not all ChromeOS is laptops.

DustinB3403

@stacksofplates oh I know, I'm not jumping into Scott's corner, I was just responding to Dash's comment on how SBC previously weren't considered "Desktop computers" by Scott, but are now apparently being lumped in.

If we look at the Oxford dictionary for a "desktop" computer (computer unquoted on purpose) it's

desk·top
/ˈdeskˌtäp/
Learn to pronounce
noun
the working surface of a desk.
a computer suitable for use at an ordinary desk.
noun: desktop computer
"a new low-end desktop"
Definitions from Oxford Languages

Which if we then look at how RPi's Alpines etc all work and operate, they would also now fall into that category and should be included in such tallies.

Obsolesce

So, in this source, Laptops seem to be lumped in with Desktops.

https://chromeunboxed.com/chromebook-market-share-sales-growth-q3-2020

All this data I found combined, for Linux to be such a large part of usage on laptops as you are thinking, just isn't possible. It would have to mean that not only do laptops make up a much larger portion of the desktop/laptop graph, but SO MUCH more so that Linux would have to be on so many of them that it would have to outweigh the others like OS X. But these graphs are showing that they are Windows... so it's simply not possible.

The data includes both laptops and desktops together, and still, Linux is only in the LOW single digits.

I cannot find a single statistic anywhere on the internet that would suggest Linux usage on Laptop is even close to being significant in comparison to ChromeOS/OS X/Windows. Even if you mentally manipulate the data to kind of like mold it into support of your own bias, it still makes no sense to think Linux on laptops is anything other than nil.

DustinB3403

@Obsolesce yeah to summarize, "The year of the Linux Desktop" hasn't arrived yet, regardless of what is being deployed to SBC's (which should be included in such tallies IMO).

Dashrender

@DustinB3403 said in Is Open Source Really So Much More Secure By Nature:

@stacksofplates oh I know, I'm not jumping into Scott's corner, I was just responding to Dash's comment on how SBC previously weren't considered "Desktop computers" by Scott, but are now apparently being lumped in.

If we look at the Oxford dictionary for a "desktop" computer (computer unquoted on purpose) it's

desk·top
/ˈdeskˌtäp/
Learn to pronounce
noun
the working surface of a desk.
a computer suitable for use at an ordinary desk.
noun: desktop computer
"a new low-end desktop"
Definitions from Oxford Languages

Which if we then look at how RPi's Alpines etc all work and operate, they would also now fall into that category and should be included in such tallies.

We were never talking about desktop computers... maybe some post someone made did, but I thought the whole discussion was around PCs, and Scott specifically narrowed it to Laptops.

DustinB3403

@Dashrender said in Is Open Source Really So Much More Secure By Nature:

We were never talking about desktop computers... maybe some post someone made did, but I thought the whole discussion was around PCs, and Scott specifically narrowed it to Laptops.

So what the fuck is this about?

@Dashrender said in Is Open Source Really So Much More Secure By Nature:

I'm also wondering why Scott is including R Pi's as PCs? They aren't. Scott's been telling us the PC spec is XYZ for a decade, clearly the R Pi doesn't qualify for that spec. Nor does the M1 based stuff.

DustinB3403

XYZ specs, would indicate that a PC (desktop or laptop) has a specific set of hardware specifications.

Obsolesce

@DustinB3403 said in Is Open Source Really So Much More Secure By Nature:

So what the fuck is this about?

Scott and NTG uses Linux on all of their desktops and laptops, so he is desperately trying to say the entire market reflects what he does in his world.

DustinB3403

Additionally, if you look at the Oxford dictionary definition for a "Desktop computer" it clearly cares not about what the components are inside of the system, so long as the intended use is: "a computer suitable for use at an ordinary desk."

Which a RPi very clearly falls into that category since it's not by design a tablet, cellphone etc.

DustinB3403

@Obsolesce said in Is Open Source Really So Much More Secure By Nature:

@DustinB3403 said in Is Open Source Really So Much More Secure By Nature:

So what the fuck is this about?

Scott and NTG uses Linux on all of their desktops and laptops, so he is desperately trying to say the entire market reflects what he does in his world.

Yeah that's fine, it's his world view. He may have hundreds or thousands of customers who are purchasing Pi's in bulk, that doesn't change the definition of what a "desktop computer" would qualify as, and the components of what's inside the case clearly don't matter either.

Obsolesce

@DustinB3403 said in Is Open Source Really So Much More Secure By Nature:

Additionally, if you look at the Oxford dictionary definition for a "Desktop computer" it clearly cares not about what the components are inside of the system, so long as the intended use is: "a computer suitable for use at an ordinary desk."

Which a RPi very clearly falls into that category since it's not by design a tablet, cellphone etc.

Right now, I have 3 laptops on my desktop...

Yes, you guessed right, my desk has to be this big:

DustinB3403

@Obsolesce That's an insane table lol...

Obsolesce

@DustinB3403 said in Is Open Source Really So Much More Secure By Nature:

@Obsolesce That's an insane ~~table~~ desk lol...

How else do you get 3 laptops to fit on a desk?

DustinB3403

@Obsolesce said in Is Open Source Really So Much More Secure By Nature:

@DustinB3403 said in Is Open Source Really So Much More Secure By Nature:

@Obsolesce That's an insane ~~table~~ desk lol...

How else do you get 3 laptops to fit on a desk?

I use an aircraft carrier, I have so much room to spread out.

Dashrender

@DustinB3403 said in Is Open Source Really So Much More Secure By Nature:

@Dashrender said in Is Open Source Really So Much More Secure By Nature:

We were never talking about desktop computers... maybe some post someone made did, but I thought the whole discussion was around PCs, and Scott specifically narrowed it to Laptops.

So what the fuck is this about?

@Dashrender said in Is Open Source Really So Much More Secure By Nature:

I'm also wondering why Scott is including R Pi's as PCs? They aren't. Scott's been telling us the PC spec is XYZ for a decade, clearly the R Pi doesn't qualify for that spec. Nor does the M1 based stuff.

PCs, specifically - not Desktops, you can call anything you want a desktop, but PC has a very specific set of requirements - that's at least what scott has been saying for years.

Now me personally - a laptop is a portable PC. An iPad with a keyboard is not a laptop, nor is an iPad Pro with keyboard... but whatever.

DustinB3403

@Dashrender said in Is Open Source Really So Much More Secure By Nature:

@DustinB3403 said in Is Open Source Really So Much More Secure By Nature:

@Dashrender said in Is Open Source Really So Much More Secure By Nature:

We were never talking about desktop computers... maybe some post someone made did, but I thought the whole discussion was around PCs, and Scott specifically narrowed it to Laptops.

So what the fuck is this about?

@Dashrender said in Is Open Source Really So Much More Secure By Nature:

I'm also wondering why Scott is including R Pi's as PCs? They aren't. Scott's been telling us the PC spec is XYZ for a decade, clearly the R Pi doesn't qualify for that spec. Nor does the M1 based stuff.

PCs, specifically - not Desktops, you can call anything you want a desktop, but PC has a very specific set of requirements - that's at least what scott has been saying for years.

Now me personally - a laptop is a portable PC. An iPad with a keyboard is not a laptop, nor is an iPad Pro with keyboard... but whatever.

Again, I've said Scott is wrong here.

Here's the definition of "Personal computer" from Oxford

Dictionary
Search for a word
per·son·al com·pu·ter
/ˈpərs(ə)n(ə)l kəmˈpyo͞odər/
noun
a computer designed for use by one person at a time.
Definitions from Oxford Languages

DustinB3403

Now when you use the term Desktop Computer and Personal Computer (PC) do you envision 2 or more people sitting in the same chair using the same HID's to interact with the system in front of them? No, because that would be stupid.

A Personal Computer or Desktop Computer are by definition and use, the same thing, regardless of the form-factor and revolves around intended use cases.

Nothing to do with what you're describing.

DustinB3403

Just because Microsoft marketed the shit out of "Personal Computer" doesn't mean a damn thing. Use the accepted definition of the words you're using and this becomes very simple to understand.

DustinB3403

And at the same time, if you install a RPI to operate a server OS for use with multiple users, then it also qualifies as a server.

serv·er
/ˈsərvər/
Learn to pronounce
See definitions in:
All
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Computing
noun
1.
a person or thing that provides a service or commodity.
2.
a computer or computer program which manages access to a centralized resource or service in a network.
"the software runs on a variety of Unix servers"
Definitions from Oxford Languages

DustinB3403

Which all of this combined by definition, a PC, Desktop Computer or Server is based on intended use. None of the marketing crap that is used for laymen terms to sell to a customer.