Can Windows 7 Still Upgrade to Windows 10
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Basically, the more we dig in, the more it looks like MS did what was assumed that they were going to do all along....
They offered staggered levels of obvious, free upgrades to get as many people off of old versions as possible. They included "end dates" to up the pressure to get people to move. But they kept offering new paths after the old ones expired ... because their goal has never changed, to end people on old versions.
MS keeps acting predictably and rationally by offering free updates, adding expiration dates, then adding new paths after those expire. It looks like they had a big public "program" for updates that expired in 2016, then a well known technical means of getting it by enabling any assistive feature by 2018, then simply and quietly making the upgrade free across the board after that point.
All stuff that we were talking about in 2015 that we expected them to do because it is what makes logical business sense for them. With the end of Windows 7 looming, the last thing that they want is people going to Linux.
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@scottalanmiller said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@bnrstnr said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
One of them very specifically states that the free upgrade offer ended in 2016 and that you need to purchase a new license
Not a single one of those is part of the license path, though. They aren't tied to the MCT download, nor do the upgrade, nor to the license or EULA. They don't apply to the situation we are discussing.
One program is known to have ended in 2016. It's also known that other options carried on after that. So that anything ended in the past that we aren't discussing here isn't applicable. But does show that whatever resource that that is isn't talking about what we are talking about.
It is relevant, because if a Windows 7 license is not actually a valid Windows 10 license than the EULA clearly states that using MCT doesn't magically make it legit. This could easily end if one of you would post something clearly stating that Windows 7, 8, 8.1 licenses are also valid as Windows 10 licenses.
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@DustinB3403 said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
But if you want to give MS some money for an additional license, they aren't going to stop you.
And they claim to tack on "extra support" when you do that, too. To justify the extra expense. There is a reason why they add additional support channels specifically for when you've spent extra money on it, to make that expense make logical sense.
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@bnrstnr said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
It is relevant, because if a Windows 7 license is not actually a valid Windows 10 license
But we know it is because when you activate you query Microsoft and ask, and they verify. So that's black and white, since there was no workaround, and they verify, you know the answer.
You are seeking an implication that isn't there.
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@bnrstnr said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
This could easily end if one of you would post something clearly stating that Windows 7, 8, 8.1 licenses are also valid as Windows 10 licenses.
That's the thing, we did. Nothing states otherwise, and Microsoft's servers check it to be sure and state that it is. How much more clear could it be? The activation servers are the current "source of truth" at any given time. Since there is no license, EULA or other restriction, nothing more is needed.
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Basically, it seems like there is a desire for it to not be true. But nothing official from Microsoft suggests anything of the sort. The EULA lists genuine licenses for upgrades. Since only Windows 7, 8, or 8.1 are "upgradable" to Windows 10, what do you think that that license refers to?
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@scottalanmiller said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@bnrstnr said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
It is relevant, because if a Windows 7 license is not actually a valid Windows 10 license
But we know it is because when you activate you query Microsoft and ask, and they verify. So that's black and white, since there was no workaround, and they verify, you know the answer.
You are seeking an implication that isn't there.
@DustinB3403 said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
Right, my hacked windows 7 ISO and product key, weren't genuine, but I was still able to upgrade to Windows 10 because MS had no way to prevent it. As far as the system knew I was genuine. But any licensed computer with Windows 7, 8 or 8.1 is allowed to upgrade to Windows 10 for free.
Dustin's pirated copy activated. It doesn't mean it's valid. Just because it activates doesn't mean it's valid. I can use my server standard license on 5 VMs and they will all activate, but only 2 VMs are valid. Activation means shit.
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More from Microsoft as to how that end date wasn't the end date...
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@bnrstnr said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
Dustin's pirated copy activated. It doesn't mean it's valid. Just because it activates doesn't mean it's valid. I can use my server standard license on 5 VMs and they will all activate, but only 2 VMs are valid. Activation means shit.
Yes, which your missing the point here. Microsoft is stating that only valid licenses are eligible aka licensed.
They have no solidified way of stopping something that is circumventing their systems from upgrading, short of dragging the offender into litigation.
The same goes for every other OS they've released in the past decade and a half. Just because you can do something doesn't make it legal.
You've proven the point.
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@bnrstnr said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
Dustin's pirated copy activated. It doesn't mean it's valid. Just because it activates doesn't mean it's valid. I can use my server standard license on 5 VMs and they will all activate, but only 2 VMs are valid. Activation means shit.
Right, that's why the EULA states that the activation is only of valid licenses. We've covered this really well. That the licenses are valid AND activate is what matters. Any mention of a non-genuine example makes no sense because we explained that and showed how the EULA takes care of it and why the EULA taking care if it proves the point.
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@DustinB3403 said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
Yes, which your missing the point here. Microsoft is stating that only valid licenses are eligible aka licensed.
You're missing the point. All we want is something that clearly states that a valid Windows 7, 8, and 8.1 license is valid for Windows 10.
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Groovy Post says the same thing that we've said for years: "So, are there any legal challenges related to this? Microsoft did say the free offer ended in July of 2016. It seems that was more of a formality or possibly marketing mumbo jumbo to create a sense of urgency."
The marketing side of things is the only one saying that options have ended. The licensing department (the only official sources) say otherwise.
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@bnrstnr said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@DustinB3403 said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
Yes, which your missing the point here. Microsoft is stating that only valid licenses are eligible aka licensed.
You're missing the point. All we want is something that clearly states that a valid Windows 7, 8, and 8.1 license is valid for Windows 10.
And we have that. At this point, we have a clear legal upgrade path. Every license, every site, every EULA in the path agrees.
If you feel that Microsoft got the licenses, and technical verification wrong, the onus is on proving that through a legal license in the path. No marketing website or third party suggestion matters. All that matters is if you violate some agreement in your acquisition path that should have stopped you. Otherwise, the licenses as we have them seem as clear as can be.
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The only thing really missing is "promotional material" to market the upgrade path. But we've also covered, as have other sites, why they are marketing one thing but doing another.
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Since you can call MS to get the license upgrade and that is valid, that they made that process automatic to stop from having to field all of those calls is both obvious and shows that this is official. They used to require you to phone in to do this, now they don't even require that. So there was a technical restriction in the past, but no longer. but never a licensing restriction.
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@DustinB3403 said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
Yes, which your missing the point here. Microsoft is stating that only valid licenses are eligible aka licensed.
They have no solidified way of stopping something that is circumventing their systems from upgrading, short of dragging the offender into litigation.
The same goes for every other OS they've released in the past decade and a half. Just because you can do something doesn't make it legal.
You've proven the point.
@scottalanmiller said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
But we know it is because when you activate you query Microsoft and ask, and they verify. So that's black and white, since there was no workaround, and they verify, you know the answer.
You are seeking an implication that isn't there.You say there is no solidified way of doing this, Scott says it's black and white because it queries Microsoft and asks... Your pirated version was activated, yet it's not legal somehow?
The whole thing is just so confusing /sarcasm
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@bnrstnr said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
You say there is no solidified way of doing this, Scott says it's black and white because it queries Microsoft and asks... Your pirated version was activated, yet it's not legal somehow?
The whole thing is just so confusing /sarcasThis has been completely covered by the EULA. How are you missing that? The EULA spells this out, so your point makes no sense. The activation is only applicable if the license is valid. Since it is, the activation is valid. Period. Black and white, no gray area, no complexity.
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Every time I've said it...
EULA + Activation.
But you keep resorting to the obviously unworked EULA or activation. And & Or are totally different concepts. You can't state that "or" doesn't work when we are only discussing "and". Of course "or" doesn't work when the entire thing depends on the "and".
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@bnrstnr said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@DustinB3403 said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
Yes, which your missing the point here. Microsoft is stating that only valid licenses are eligible aka licensed.
You're missing the point. All we want is something that clearly states that a valid Windows 7, 8, and 8.1 license is valid for Windows 10.
You are conflating being able to do something with being licensed to do something.
I was able to upgrade =/= being licensed to do it.
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So instead of talking about obviously disallowed pirated versions.... if you feel that we have something wrong in our interpretation of the EULA, then talk about what we are talking about which is exclusively the situation where you have a valid license, the EULA is in force, and the technical verification of the key with Microsoft is approved. That and only that situation has ever been discussed as being valid. Any other situation is misdirection. Absolutely no one has claimed that pirated software is a legal upgrade eligible or that activation alone means anything, etc.
