question about setting up a new domain controller
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@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@tim_g said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@tim_g said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@tim_g said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@tim_g said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
you'll likely get the better pricing.. but you're stuck with the VAR issues.
What issues do we face now? Nothing changed except the amount of money we pay, and who we make the check out to...
So until MS lowers their direct pricing enough to offset the savings we have now (very unliely to ever happen), or the cost of AppRiver subscriptions go up (no likely if they want our money), I don't see any downside... especially due to it's as easy as flipping a switch to go back to MS direct.
Well, this is a case like having a single SAN and believing your have redundancy - you might never have issues, cause you just might get lucky for the life of the product, but, if you're not lucky, and you have to exercise the migration process for some reason, or need support and Appriver can't/won't help you.. you're stuck.
If, IF it's truly as easy as a switch to flip back (countless stories on other sites disagree, but not specifically for Appriver), then I'd say you got some kinda of awesome rare deal.
I'm not seeing the relationship.
Everythign is still Microsoft... Microsoft E1/E3 licenses, Microsoft products, and Microsoft services.
I'm basically buying a movie ticket through someone else instead of the movie theatre itself... someone else being someone who got a bulk discount and can sell them cheaper than the movie theatre itself. We know the tickets (licenses) are not fake, so what's the risk?
No, MS doesn't offer bulk discounts. Something here changed. If you got a discount, AppRiver controls your access to Microsoft.
How can you prove this?
Because MS says so
If you look at AppRiver's site, they say that the support comes from AppRiver. They might allow pass through to Microsoft, but I bet that they don't. If you call MS for support, I bet MS redirects you.
When i log in to O365 admin panel, it's all MS. Even tickets, support, and all that. I literally see nothing that has to do with AppRiver , nothing.
Weird, but that would be all up to AppRiver. Are you sure that you can call MS? Are you sure that the tickets go to MS and not to AppRiver?
Yes, when I make a ticket, it's MS that calls me back soon after.
There is nothing AppRiver. The only thing on AppRiver is a user database, and who gets what MS license... E1 or E3. That's all you can do on teh AppRiver side of things.
EVERYTHING else is 100% Microsoft O365.
Right, but that's enough to make AppRiver own the account.
Yeah, but I don't really care who owns the movie ticket (license)... I'm still getting all MS products, services, and support.
Nothing changed for us except who we pay. Even AD sync still the same:
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Note teh billing part... "None". We don't pay MS.
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How in the world are we ending up into Office 365 pricing from a domain controller question ? I guess I can see the point, but mainly I believe @Tim_G received Appriver's re-seller pricing or internal to them pricing which he probably cannot say here.
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@dbeato said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
How in the world are we ending up into Office 365 pricing from a domain controller question ? I guess I can see the point, but mainly I believe @Tim_G received Appriver's re-seller pricing or internal to them pricing which he probably cannot say here.
Because Scott suggested that the OP change Exchange of the environment before making changes to the DCs, since it is the OPs plan to do something to Exchange anyway.
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@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dbeato said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
How in the world are we ending up into Office 365 pricing from a domain controller question ? I guess I can see the point, but mainly I believe @Tim_G received Appriver's re-seller pricing or internal to them pricing which he probably cannot say here.
Because Scott suggested that the OP change Exchange of the environment before making changes to the DCs, since it is the OPs plan to do something to Exchange anyway.
I see, I didn't miss that but I guess the discussion is about pricing now.
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@dbeato said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dbeato said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
How in the world are we ending up into Office 365 pricing from a domain controller question ? I guess I can see the point, but mainly I believe @Tim_G received Appriver's re-seller pricing or internal to them pricing which he probably cannot say here.
Because Scott suggested that the OP change Exchange of the environment before making changes to the DCs, since it is the OPs plan to do something to Exchange anyway.
I see, I didn't miss that but I guess the discussion is about pricing now.
The OP took that suggestion to heart which then made him ask about the move to O365, which lead to how to buy, which brings in pricing (Tim claims no VAR issues from buying from a VAR where Scott claims potential issues).
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@dbeato said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dbeato said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
How in the world are we ending up into Office 365 pricing from a domain controller question ? I guess I can see the point, but mainly I believe @Tim_G received Appriver's re-seller pricing or internal to them pricing which he probably cannot say here.
Because Scott suggested that the OP change Exchange of the environment before making changes to the DCs, since it is the OPs plan to do something to Exchange anyway.
I see, I didn't miss that but I guess the discussion is about pricing now.
Yeah.
Some are saying that because I'm buying E1/E3 O365 licenses from AppRiver or similar reseller, that I'm somehow not getting real O365 and that I now have VAR issues.
I am failing to see any of those claims, as from my view, are completely false.
Nothing changed between paying MS for our licenses, to paying AppRiver for our licenses.
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@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@tim_g said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
then I'd say you got some kinda of awesome rare deal.
Not really, just find some dude who sells AppRiver O365 E1/E3 (or whatever you need) licenses cheaper than the AppRiver website lists them for, that are also cheaper than MS sells them for directly.
That's not direct, though. MS no longer has control of your data, AppRiver owns you. MS isn't allowed to vary the prices for their system. There is no volume discount for partners.
That made me think of something.. having Exchange in house would mean that we own our email, not MS. I've been thinking about this thread all day and I'm still thinking that Exchange 2016 on site would be fine for us vs O365 Exchange. I mean, we've had Exchange 2010 running for years and years now and have had zero issues with it. Our Exchange server has only about 800GB of storage and it's nowhere near full because the majority of historical emails have been offloaded to Mimecast, which is our 3rd party hosted spam filter/email archive vendor. If anything, they are the ones who own our email data. Having Exchange in house would mean things run faster internally and it wouldn't be dependent on our internet connection.
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Then you are still reliant on you works internet connection if you want email outside of your internal network.
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If you only need email onprem then I feel like there are better and cheaper options for realtime messaging than email or exchange server.
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@tim_g said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
Then you are still reliant on you works internet connection if you want email outside of your internal network.
The majority of the email use is during work hours though (internal emails being sent between departments). Being able to use email during business hours when the internet is down is better than not being able to use email during business hours when the internet is down.
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@tim_g said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
If you only need email onprem then I feel like there are better and cheaper options for realtime messaging than email or exchange server.
Same here but everyone is already used to Outlook and MS products. What are ya gonna do?
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@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@tim_g said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
If you only need email onprem then I feel like there are better and cheaper options for realtime messaging than email or exchange server.
Same here but everyone is already used to Outlook and MS products. What are ya gonna do?
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@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@tim_g said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
If you only need email onprem then I feel like there are better and cheaper options for realtime messaging than email or exchange server.
Same here but everyone is already used to Outlook and MS products. What are ya gonna do?
Shoot them?
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@tim_g said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
Yeah, but I don't really care who owns the movie ticket (license)... I'm still getting all MS products, services, and support.
At AppRiver's discretion. It's great that you are getting that, but the stated prices are double those of going direct, and the risk is they will cut you off as you don't own the account. AppRiver is a good company, but it is still a layer of risk.
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@tim_g said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dbeato said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dbeato said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
How in the world are we ending up into Office 365 pricing from a domain controller question ? I guess I can see the point, but mainly I believe @Tim_G received Appriver's re-seller pricing or internal to them pricing which he probably cannot say here.
Because Scott suggested that the OP change Exchange of the environment before making changes to the DCs, since it is the OPs plan to do something to Exchange anyway.
I see, I didn't miss that but I guess the discussion is about pricing now.
Yeah.
Some are saying that because I'm buying E1/E3 O365 licenses from AppRiver or similar reseller, that I'm somehow not getting real O365 and that I now have VAR issues.
I am failing to see any of those claims, as from my view, are completely false.
Nothing changed between paying MS for our licenses, to paying AppRiver for our licenses.
But they are TRUE. You don't have guaranteed anything, it's all at AppRiver's discretion. They decide to let MS interfaces be exposed to you (for now), they decide to let MS handle some support (without the concierge benefits of the partner relationship... for now), they decide to make it transparent (for now.) It's all "up to them" and not something you control. And, from their website, they don't even offer a matching service to O365 so it is very hard to tell if you are getting a good deal, or not.
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@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@tim_g said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
then I'd say you got some kinda of awesome rare deal.
Not really, just find some dude who sells AppRiver O365 E1/E3 (or whatever you need) licenses cheaper than the AppRiver website lists them for, that are also cheaper than MS sells them for directly.
That's not direct, though. MS no longer has control of your data, AppRiver owns you. MS isn't allowed to vary the prices for their system. There is no volume discount for partners.
That made me think of something.. having Exchange in house would mean that we own our email, not MS. I've been thinking about this thread all day and I'm still thinking that Exchange 2016 on site would be fine for us vs O365 Exchange. I mean, we've had Exchange 2010 running for years and years now and have had zero issues with it. Our Exchange server has only about 800GB of storage and it's nowhere near full because the majority of historical emails have been offloaded to Mimecast, which is our 3rd party hosted spam filter/email archive vendor. If anything, they are the ones who own our email data. Having Exchange in house would mean things run faster internally and it wouldn't be dependent on our internet connection.
Right, so all that Mimecast cost would go away. Think about how cheap Office 365 is once you don't have the cost of Mimecast any longer. It's pretty dramatic.
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@tim_g said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
If you only need email onprem then I feel like there are better and cheaper options for realtime messaging than email or exchange server.
Even if you still want email, we like Zimbra better as an email server. That's the primary reason that we left O365, Zimbra was just... better.
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@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
but the stated prices are double those of going direct
No, nowhere close to double... AppRiver's stated prices for the E3 license is $21.95 and MS Direct is $20.00. How is AppRiver's price double?
But anywho... We aren't paying AppRiver's listed prices anyways... it's significantly lower, making it way cheaper (thousands per month cheaper) to pay AppRiver for our E1/E3 licensing instead of Microsoft directly, with no added risk that I have seen.
If AppRiver pulls the plug (they wont if they want our money), we start paying Microsoft then.... no loss.
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@tim_g said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
No, nowhere close to double... AppRiver's stated prices for the E3 license is $21.95 and MS Direct is $20.00. How is AppRiver's price double?
Email was like $8 instead of $4 if all you wanted was email. Double for what we are discussing, at least. I mean, $7.95 instead of $4, lol. But that's just about double.
