When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?
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@Jimmy9008 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:
Perhaps back when they started the developers they had were most competent with SQL Server. Its what they had experience with. Use what you know right?
That's my point, no. For lots of reasons...
- It's just not good business, using what you know instead of what is right for the business.
- Devs don't need to "know" anything about the database, that's for IT to know. They just write the queries and even that isn't common. It's abstracted from them.
- If learning a database from either perspective takes ANY effort, you have a major development problem that is going to spiral into all kinds of problems.
- Same for languages, the slightest level of development competency means that databases and languages are not barriers, ever.
- If you use what you know, this means that someone must have hired them based on that and was the ACTUAL decision maker, why did they hire people who can only do one thing and not a thing appropriate to the need?
This is something I've dealt with for a long time. Sure, things in the murky past present a lot of ambiguity to say "well maybe it" but let's be realistic. In the real world, there is no actual situation that is going to have realistically happened to justify this, especially given other things we know (profits not prioritized, butts in seats, etc.) that suggest a long term problematic way of thinking.
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@Jimmy9008 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:
Delay if training them in something else, or delay to fire them and recruit people with experience in less expensive solutions... what if that made them miss their window to be first and capture the market... no ongoing business at all. You missed your chance. That 100k lost from that decision could have protected 50million for all I know.
This is decent logic and in a vacuum makes total sense. In a programming one, though, it does not. This is actually the reason that you'd fire them immediately because it suggests that they are super slow programmers that are not going to be able to execute quickly. For exactly the reason of fearing delays is why you would not follow this path.
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@scottalanmiller said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:
@Jimmy9008 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:
Delay if training them in something else, or delay to fire them and recruit people with experience in less expensive solutions... what if that made them miss their window to be first and capture the market... no ongoing business at all. You missed your chance. That 100k lost from that decision could have protected 50million for all I know.
This is decent logic and in a vacuum makes total sense. In a programming one, though, it does not. This is actually the reason that you'd fire them immediately because it suggests that they are super slow programmers that are not going to be able to execute quickly. For exactly the reason of fearing delays is why you would not follow this path.
I will never know the reasons. Any discussions can only be guesses here.
All I know for sure here is that i'm happy with HA that has been accomplished within my remit, all without the cost of VMWare.
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@Jimmy9008 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:
@scottalanmiller said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:
@Jimmy9008 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:
Delay if training them in something else, or delay to fire them and recruit people with experience in less expensive solutions... what if that made them miss their window to be first and capture the market... no ongoing business at all. You missed your chance. That 100k lost from that decision could have protected 50million for all I know.
This is decent logic and in a vacuum makes total sense. In a programming one, though, it does not. This is actually the reason that you'd fire them immediately because it suggests that they are super slow programmers that are not going to be able to execute quickly. For exactly the reason of fearing delays is why you would not follow this path.
I will never know the reasons. Any discussions can only be guesses here.
All I know for sure here is that i'm happy with HA that has been accomplished within my remit, all without the cost of VMWare.
I agree, it sounds like given your incredible constraints that this is a good solution for you. It might be worth looking at other free hypervisors and maybe going for platform HA there, as well, but not likely.
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@scottalanmiller said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:
@Jimmy9008 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:
@scottalanmiller said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:
@Jimmy9008 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:
Delay if training them in something else, or delay to fire them and recruit people with experience in less expensive solutions... what if that made them miss their window to be first and capture the market... no ongoing business at all. You missed your chance. That 100k lost from that decision could have protected 50million for all I know.
This is decent logic and in a vacuum makes total sense. In a programming one, though, it does not. This is actually the reason that you'd fire them immediately because it suggests that they are super slow programmers that are not going to be able to execute quickly. For exactly the reason of fearing delays is why you would not follow this path.
I will never know the reasons. Any discussions can only be guesses here.
All I know for sure here is that i'm happy with HA that has been accomplished within my remit, all without the cost of VMWare.
I agree, it sounds like given your incredible constraints that this is a good solution for you. It might be worth looking at other free hypervisors and maybe going for platform HA there, as well, but not likely.
If it means learning something new, its always a good thing in my book.
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@Jimmy9008 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:
@scottalanmiller said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:
@Jimmy9008 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:
@scottalanmiller said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:
@Jimmy9008 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:
Delay if training them in something else, or delay to fire them and recruit people with experience in less expensive solutions... what if that made them miss their window to be first and capture the market... no ongoing business at all. You missed your chance. That 100k lost from that decision could have protected 50million for all I know.
This is decent logic and in a vacuum makes total sense. In a programming one, though, it does not. This is actually the reason that you'd fire them immediately because it suggests that they are super slow programmers that are not going to be able to execute quickly. For exactly the reason of fearing delays is why you would not follow this path.
I will never know the reasons. Any discussions can only be guesses here.
All I know for sure here is that i'm happy with HA that has been accomplished within my remit, all without the cost of VMWare.
I agree, it sounds like given your incredible constraints that this is a good solution for you. It might be worth looking at other free hypervisors and maybe going for platform HA there, as well, but not likely.
If it means learning something new, its always a good thing in my book.
Good for you, not always a good business decision
Only because learning one thing new always has to come at the expensive of learning something else new, so choosing which new thing is more important is the trade off. -
@scottalanmiller said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:
@Jimmy9008 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:
@scottalanmiller said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:
@Jimmy9008 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:
@scottalanmiller said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:
@Jimmy9008 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:
Delay if training them in something else, or delay to fire them and recruit people with experience in less expensive solutions... what if that made them miss their window to be first and capture the market... no ongoing business at all. You missed your chance. That 100k lost from that decision could have protected 50million for all I know.
This is decent logic and in a vacuum makes total sense. In a programming one, though, it does not. This is actually the reason that you'd fire them immediately because it suggests that they are super slow programmers that are not going to be able to execute quickly. For exactly the reason of fearing delays is why you would not follow this path.
I will never know the reasons. Any discussions can only be guesses here.
All I know for sure here is that i'm happy with HA that has been accomplished within my remit, all without the cost of VMWare.
I agree, it sounds like given your incredible constraints that this is a good solution for you. It might be worth looking at other free hypervisors and maybe going for platform HA there, as well, but not likely.
If it means learning something new, its always a good thing in my book.
Good for you, not always a good business decision
Yep agree. Ha.
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You would not likely buy something just for this, but VMware has vVols. I don't think that anyone else has an equivalent technology, yet.
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@scottalanmiller said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:
@matteo-nunziati said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:
@scottalanmiller said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:
@matteo-nunziati said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:
@DustinB3403 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:
The cost of the solution isn't expensive if your business requires those features.
example?
Fault Tolerance with vendor support for it. Technically not limited to Vmware, but essentially limited to it. I believe Suse with Xen is the only other vendor who offers OEM vendor support for that.
Agree 100%. It is one of the cheapest supported solutions. Issue is if you can afford it! Usually not here.
Of course exceptions can be around. But are exceptions imho in the small business.Not sure it is the cheapest. Compare to Red Hat, I bet RH is cheaper. I've not compared, I'm just guessing.
Not really. If you want live migration and other stuff you have yo go rhve or how the hell they name ovirt.
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@matteo-nunziati said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:
@scottalanmiller said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:
@matteo-nunziati said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:
@scottalanmiller said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:
@matteo-nunziati said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:
@DustinB3403 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:
The cost of the solution isn't expensive if your business requires those features.
example?
Fault Tolerance with vendor support for it. Technically not limited to Vmware, but essentially limited to it. I believe Suse with Xen is the only other vendor who offers OEM vendor support for that.
Agree 100%. It is one of the cheapest supported solutions. Issue is if you can afford it! Usually not here.
Of course exceptions can be around. But are exceptions imho in the small business.Not sure it is the cheapest. Compare to Red Hat, I bet RH is cheaper. I've not compared, I'm just guessing.
Not really. If you want live migration and other stuff you have yo go rhve or how the hell they name ovirt.
Plain KVM has done live migration from the very beginning…
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@Francesco-Provino said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:
@matteo-nunziati said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:
@scottalanmiller said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:
@matteo-nunziati said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:
@scottalanmiller said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:
@matteo-nunziati said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:
@DustinB3403 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:
The cost of the solution isn't expensive if your business requires those features.
example?
Fault Tolerance with vendor support for it. Technically not limited to Vmware, but essentially limited to it. I believe Suse with Xen is the only other vendor who offers OEM vendor support for that.
Agree 100%. It is one of the cheapest supported solutions. Issue is if you can afford it! Usually not here.
Of course exceptions can be around. But are exceptions imho in the small business.Not sure it is the cheapest. Compare to Red Hat, I bet RH is cheaper. I've not compared, I'm just guessing.
Not really. If you want live migration and other stuff you have yo go rhve or how the hell they name ovirt.
Plain KVM has done live migration from the very beginning…
Yes but if we talk about support for this kind of things, this is provided via rh virtualization.
Try live migrate with stock centos: it doesn't work. You need to pull from rh virtualization sources. Centos has a set of packages for this specific need. It also does share nothing migration
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@matteo-nunziati said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:
@Francesco-Provino said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:
@matteo-nunziati said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:
@scottalanmiller said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:
@matteo-nunziati said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:
@scottalanmiller said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:
@matteo-nunziati said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:
@DustinB3403 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:
The cost of the solution isn't expensive if your business requires those features.
example?
Fault Tolerance with vendor support for it. Technically not limited to Vmware, but essentially limited to it. I believe Suse with Xen is the only other vendor who offers OEM vendor support for that.
Agree 100%. It is one of the cheapest supported solutions. Issue is if you can afford it! Usually not here.
Of course exceptions can be around. But are exceptions imho in the small business.Not sure it is the cheapest. Compare to Red Hat, I bet RH is cheaper. I've not compared, I'm just guessing.
Not really. If you want live migration and other stuff you have yo go rhve or how the hell they name ovirt.
Plain KVM has done live migration from the very beginning…
Yes but if we talk about support for this kind of things, this is provided via rh virtualization.
Try live migrate with stock centos: it doesn't work. You need to pull from rh virtualization sources. Centos has a set of packages for this specific need. It also does share nothing migration
Also long distance vmotion is another fun on. On vSphere I can migrate stuff from London to NYC without disrtuption. Also NSX will virtualize the network so that VMs network will actually work running active active over long distances with full ingress/egress and BGP.
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@Reid-Cooper said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:
You would not likely buy something just for this, but VMware has vVols. I don't think that anyone else has an equivalent technology.
Vvols is amazingly powerful, and there's nothing even on roadmap for something similar from others. Even small shops can benefit from the 50x snapshot performance improvement.
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@John-Nicholson said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:
@Reid-Cooper said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:
You would not likely buy something just for this, but VMware has vVols. I don't think that anyone else has an equivalent technology.
Vvols is amazingly powerful, and there's nothing even on roadmap for something similar from others. Even small shops can benefit from the 50x snapshot performance improvement.
What they do exactly? Link please
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@matteo-nunziati said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:
@John-Nicholson said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:
@Reid-Cooper said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:
You would not likely buy something just for this, but VMware has vVols. I don't think that anyone else has an equivalent technology.
Vvols is amazingly powerful, and there's nothing even on roadmap for something similar from others. Even small shops can benefit from the 50x snapshot performance improvement.
What they do exactly? Link please
The only link I've found is how it says it's so good for your business and is the next best thing for managing volumes... reminds me of something.
Link: https://www.vmware.com/products/vsphere/virtual-volumes.html
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@matteo-nunziati said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:
@John-Nicholson said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:
@Reid-Cooper said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:
You would not likely buy something just for this, but VMware has vVols. I don't think that anyone else has an equivalent technology.
Vvols is amazingly powerful, and there's nothing even on roadmap for something similar from others. Even small shops can benefit from the 50x snapshot performance improvement.
What they do exactly? Link please
I also found this: http://www.computerweekly.com/news/2240242340/Top-five-things-you-need-to-know-about-VMware-Virtual-Volumes
Just seems like what Hyper-V already has had built in for a long time, like QoS and such.
I just did a quick read, I'm sure John has a lot more to add, which would be helpful.
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@Tim_G said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:
@matteo-nunziati said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:
@John-Nicholson said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:
@Reid-Cooper said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:
You would not likely buy something just for this, but VMware has vVols. I don't think that anyone else has an equivalent technology.
Vvols is amazingly powerful, and there's nothing even on roadmap for something similar from others. Even small shops can benefit from the 50x snapshot performance improvement.
What they do exactly? Link please
I also found this: http://www.computerweekly.com/news/2240242340/Top-five-things-you-need-to-know-about-VMware-Virtual-Volumes
Just seems like what Hyper-V already has had built in for a long time, like QoS and such.
I just did a quick read, I'm sure John has a lot more to add, which would be helpful.
I think the big plus for vVOLs is the API access so the hypervisor can offload storage responsibilities to the storage layer. Like letting the storage do the snapshots and clones.
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@stacksofplates like let the san use uts own snapshot/backup sw?
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@matteo-nunziati said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:
@stacksofplates like let the san use uts own snapshot/backup sw?
Yes, which isn't quite fully offloaded, but a reliable means of communications so that the SAN can do the majority of the work.
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@Jimmy9008 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:
@scottalanmiller said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:
@Jimmy9008 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:
Yeah, agree. But, the development team are the team who select what they want to use, for reasons I'm not privy to... they wanted SQL Server when they assessed it a long time ago, and that's what the solution has been built on.
It sounds like layer after layer of business and political failures resulting in IT trying to find expensive technical band-aids to poor management oversight. Not a good situation. Good that there is enough money to pay for some fixes, but bad that money is needed to fix things that never needed to be broken.
I really don't know the reasons why back in day one, the decision was to use this stack. That was decided a long time ago, and i'n never at this stage be able to get them to change their entire stack. Maybe it was a good decision, maybe bad... I don't know as I wasn't there. The fact it is wasn't a poor decision, just a more expensive one to use SQL Server. Nothing broken.
I dare you to say that again and ask Scott about corruption.
