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    Why the SMB Still Needs Hardware RAID

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    • scottalanmillerS
      scottalanmiller @Dashrender
      last edited by

      @Dashrender said in Why the SMB Still Needs Hardware RAID:

      @scottalanmiller said in Why the SMB Still Needs Hardware RAID:

      @coliver said in Why the SMB Still Needs Hardware RAID:

      @NetworkNerd said in Why the SMB Still Needs Hardware RAID:

      Wouldn't a technology like vSAN be considered software RAID in some form? It's just not enabled in ESXi by default unless you buy the license.

      vSAN, from talking with some VMWare engineers, is really meant to be handled as RAIN. You don't care about the individual underlying hardware components because each individual node is replicating to all the other nodes.

      And the drives are independent.

      How are the drives configured in a RAIN setup? as JBOD? Does the RAIN setup (aka software managing the storage) handle the distribution of data over the drives? Does it work more or less like RAID 0 in the hopes of getting the best speed/performance?

      I hate the term JBOD, it means nothing. All disks are JBOD at some level and not at others. All RAID starts as JBOD.

      RAIN isn't a specific approach, so you can't answer at that level. RAID is specific and doesn't handle RAIN. So like relational databases and NoSQL, we have "this popular thing" and "everything else" categories, more or less.

      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
      • travisdh1T
        travisdh1 @Dashrender
        last edited by

        @Dashrender said in Why the SMB Still Needs Hardware RAID:

        @scottalanmiller said in Why the SMB Still Needs Hardware RAID:

        @coliver said in Why the SMB Still Needs Hardware RAID:

        @NetworkNerd said in Why the SMB Still Needs Hardware RAID:

        Wouldn't a technology like vSAN be considered software RAID in some form? It's just not enabled in ESXi by default unless you buy the license.

        vSAN, from talking with some VMWare engineers, is really meant to be handled as RAIN. You don't care about the individual underlying hardware components because each individual node is replicating to all the other nodes.

        And the drives are independent.

        How are the drives configured in a RAIN setup? as JBOD?

        To the host system, yes.

        Does the RAIN setup (aka software managing the storage) handle the distribution of data over the drives?

        http://www.computerworld.com/article/2579611/data-center/rain-explained.html
        And let's not forget Erasure Coding to really understand what's going on under the hood of a RAIN system.
        https://www.backblaze.com/blog/reed-solomon/

        Does it work more or less like RAID 0 in the hopes of getting the best speed/performance?

        If you really want it to, it could.

        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • scottalanmillerS
          scottalanmiller
          last edited by

          The most common RAIN approach that I see is taking all disks in the pool, noting their nodal presence and using mirroring to distribute the data so that data mirrors never go to the same disk and/or the same node. So a little like a networked RAID 1E but with more flexibility and the option to add nodal separation and performance testing so that data moves to where it is used.

          DashrenderD dafyreD 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
          • DashrenderD
            Dashrender @scottalanmiller
            last edited by

            @scottalanmiller said in Why the SMB Still Needs Hardware RAID:

            The most common RAIN approach that I see is taking all disks in the pool, noting their nodal presence and using mirroring to distribute the data so that data mirrors never go to the same disk and/or the same node. So a little like a networked RAID 1E but with more flexibility and the option to add nodal separation and performance testing so that data moves to where it is used.

            Ok that makes sense.. thanks.

            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • dafyreD
              dafyre @scottalanmiller
              last edited by

              @scottalanmiller said in Why the SMB Still Needs Hardware RAID:

              The most common RAIN approach that I see is taking all disks in the pool, noting their nodal presence and using mirroring to distribute the data so that data mirrors never go to the same disk and/or the same node. So a little like a networked RAID 1E but with more flexibility and the option to add nodal separation and performance testing so that data moves to where it is used.

              Are you aware of any open source RAIN systems?

              travisdh1T 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • travisdh1T
                travisdh1 @dafyre
                last edited by

                @dafyre said in Why the SMB Still Needs Hardware RAID:

                @scottalanmiller said in Why the SMB Still Needs Hardware RAID:

                The most common RAIN approach that I see is taking all disks in the pool, noting their nodal presence and using mirroring to distribute the data so that data mirrors never go to the same disk and/or the same node. So a little like a networked RAID 1E but with more flexibility and the option to add nodal separation and performance testing so that data moves to where it is used.

                Are you aware of any open source RAIN systems?

                Gluster and Swift

                coliverC 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • coliverC
                  coliver @travisdh1
                  last edited by

                  @travisdh1 said in Why the SMB Still Needs Hardware RAID:

                  @dafyre said in Why the SMB Still Needs Hardware RAID:

                  @scottalanmiller said in Why the SMB Still Needs Hardware RAID:

                  The most common RAIN approach that I see is taking all disks in the pool, noting their nodal presence and using mirroring to distribute the data so that data mirrors never go to the same disk and/or the same node. So a little like a networked RAID 1E but with more flexibility and the option to add nodal separation and performance testing so that data moves to where it is used.

                  Are you aware of any open source RAIN systems?

                  Gluster and Swift

                  I think Ceph and Lustre may be two others.

                  scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                  • scottalanmillerS
                    scottalanmiller @coliver
                    last edited by

                    @coliver said in Why the SMB Still Needs Hardware RAID:

                    @travisdh1 said in Why the SMB Still Needs Hardware RAID:

                    @dafyre said in Why the SMB Still Needs Hardware RAID:

                    @scottalanmiller said in Why the SMB Still Needs Hardware RAID:

                    The most common RAIN approach that I see is taking all disks in the pool, noting their nodal presence and using mirroring to distribute the data so that data mirrors never go to the same disk and/or the same node. So a little like a networked RAID 1E but with more flexibility and the option to add nodal separation and performance testing so that data moves to where it is used.

                    Are you aware of any open source RAIN systems?

                    Gluster and Swift

                    I think Ceph and Lustre may be two others.

                    Lustre is RAIN, but is closed. Gluster was the open replacement for Lustre.

                    coliverC 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                    • coliverC
                      coliver @scottalanmiller
                      last edited by

                      @scottalanmiller said in Why the SMB Still Needs Hardware RAID:

                      @coliver said in Why the SMB Still Needs Hardware RAID:

                      @travisdh1 said in Why the SMB Still Needs Hardware RAID:

                      @dafyre said in Why the SMB Still Needs Hardware RAID:

                      @scottalanmiller said in Why the SMB Still Needs Hardware RAID:

                      The most common RAIN approach that I see is taking all disks in the pool, noting their nodal presence and using mirroring to distribute the data so that data mirrors never go to the same disk and/or the same node. So a little like a networked RAID 1E but with more flexibility and the option to add nodal separation and performance testing so that data moves to where it is used.

                      Are you aware of any open source RAIN systems?

                      Gluster and Swift

                      I think Ceph and Lustre may be two others.

                      Lustre is RAIN, but is closed. Gluster was the open replacement for Lustre.

                      Just a quick search showed that Lustre was GPL 2.0, not sure if that is new or not.

                      scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • scottalanmillerS
                        scottalanmiller @coliver
                        last edited by

                        @coliver said in Why the SMB Still Needs Hardware RAID:

                        @scottalanmiller said in Why the SMB Still Needs Hardware RAID:

                        @coliver said in Why the SMB Still Needs Hardware RAID:

                        @travisdh1 said in Why the SMB Still Needs Hardware RAID:

                        @dafyre said in Why the SMB Still Needs Hardware RAID:

                        @scottalanmiller said in Why the SMB Still Needs Hardware RAID:

                        The most common RAIN approach that I see is taking all disks in the pool, noting their nodal presence and using mirroring to distribute the data so that data mirrors never go to the same disk and/or the same node. So a little like a networked RAID 1E but with more flexibility and the option to add nodal separation and performance testing so that data moves to where it is used.

                        Are you aware of any open source RAIN systems?

                        Gluster and Swift

                        I think Ceph and Lustre may be two others.

                        Lustre is RAIN, but is closed. Gluster was the open replacement for Lustre.

                        Just a quick search showed that Lustre was GPL 2.0, not sure if that is new or not.

                        Oh wow, must be new. It was crazy expensive in 2006 when we were really investigating it. That's awesome.

                        coliverC 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • coliverC
                          coliver @scottalanmiller
                          last edited by

                          @scottalanmiller said in Why the SMB Still Needs Hardware RAID:

                          @coliver said in Why the SMB Still Needs Hardware RAID:

                          @scottalanmiller said in Why the SMB Still Needs Hardware RAID:

                          @coliver said in Why the SMB Still Needs Hardware RAID:

                          @travisdh1 said in Why the SMB Still Needs Hardware RAID:

                          @dafyre said in Why the SMB Still Needs Hardware RAID:

                          @scottalanmiller said in Why the SMB Still Needs Hardware RAID:

                          The most common RAIN approach that I see is taking all disks in the pool, noting their nodal presence and using mirroring to distribute the data so that data mirrors never go to the same disk and/or the same node. So a little like a networked RAID 1E but with more flexibility and the option to add nodal separation and performance testing so that data moves to where it is used.

                          Are you aware of any open source RAIN systems?

                          Gluster and Swift

                          I think Ceph and Lustre may be two others.

                          Lustre is RAIN, but is closed. Gluster was the open replacement for Lustre.

                          Just a quick search showed that Lustre was GPL 2.0, not sure if that is new or not.

                          Oh wow, must be new. It was crazy expensive in 2006 when we were really investigating it. That's awesome.

                          Ah looks like it went open source in 2010.

                          scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • scottalanmillerS
                            scottalanmiller @coliver
                            last edited by

                            @coliver said in Why the SMB Still Needs Hardware RAID:

                            @scottalanmiller said in Why the SMB Still Needs Hardware RAID:

                            @coliver said in Why the SMB Still Needs Hardware RAID:

                            @scottalanmiller said in Why the SMB Still Needs Hardware RAID:

                            @coliver said in Why the SMB Still Needs Hardware RAID:

                            @travisdh1 said in Why the SMB Still Needs Hardware RAID:

                            @dafyre said in Why the SMB Still Needs Hardware RAID:

                            @scottalanmiller said in Why the SMB Still Needs Hardware RAID:

                            The most common RAIN approach that I see is taking all disks in the pool, noting their nodal presence and using mirroring to distribute the data so that data mirrors never go to the same disk and/or the same node. So a little like a networked RAID 1E but with more flexibility and the option to add nodal separation and performance testing so that data moves to where it is used.

                            Are you aware of any open source RAIN systems?

                            Gluster and Swift

                            I think Ceph and Lustre may be two others.

                            Lustre is RAIN, but is closed. Gluster was the open replacement for Lustre.

                            Just a quick search showed that Lustre was GPL 2.0, not sure if that is new or not.

                            Oh wow, must be new. It was crazy expensive in 2006 when we were really investigating it. That's awesome.

                            Ah looks like it went open source in 2010.

                            Oh cool, so I remember things well then. I'm just out of date. Gluster probably forced their hand, why would anyone consider Lustre when it was closed source? The answer was probably... they wouldn't and didn't.

                            coliverC 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • coliverC
                              coliver @scottalanmiller
                              last edited by

                              @scottalanmiller said in Why the SMB Still Needs Hardware RAID:

                              @coliver said in Why the SMB Still Needs Hardware RAID:

                              @scottalanmiller said in Why the SMB Still Needs Hardware RAID:

                              @coliver said in Why the SMB Still Needs Hardware RAID:

                              @scottalanmiller said in Why the SMB Still Needs Hardware RAID:

                              @coliver said in Why the SMB Still Needs Hardware RAID:

                              @travisdh1 said in Why the SMB Still Needs Hardware RAID:

                              @dafyre said in Why the SMB Still Needs Hardware RAID:

                              @scottalanmiller said in Why the SMB Still Needs Hardware RAID:

                              The most common RAIN approach that I see is taking all disks in the pool, noting their nodal presence and using mirroring to distribute the data so that data mirrors never go to the same disk and/or the same node. So a little like a networked RAID 1E but with more flexibility and the option to add nodal separation and performance testing so that data moves to where it is used.

                              Are you aware of any open source RAIN systems?

                              Gluster and Swift

                              I think Ceph and Lustre may be two others.

                              Lustre is RAIN, but is closed. Gluster was the open replacement for Lustre.

                              Just a quick search showed that Lustre was GPL 2.0, not sure if that is new or not.

                              Oh wow, must be new. It was crazy expensive in 2006 when we were really investigating it. That's awesome.

                              Ah looks like it went open source in 2010.

                              Oh cool, so I remember things well then. I'm just out of date. Gluster probably forced their hand, why would anyone consider Lustre when it was closed source? The answer was probably... they wouldn't and didn't.

                              Yep, I'd assume that was the case. Especially when it is a such a specific, and at the time, niche market.

                              scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • scottalanmillerS
                                scottalanmiller @coliver
                                last edited by

                                @coliver said in Why the SMB Still Needs Hardware RAID:

                                @scottalanmiller said in Why the SMB Still Needs Hardware RAID:

                                @coliver said in Why the SMB Still Needs Hardware RAID:

                                @scottalanmiller said in Why the SMB Still Needs Hardware RAID:

                                @coliver said in Why the SMB Still Needs Hardware RAID:

                                @scottalanmiller said in Why the SMB Still Needs Hardware RAID:

                                @coliver said in Why the SMB Still Needs Hardware RAID:

                                @travisdh1 said in Why the SMB Still Needs Hardware RAID:

                                @dafyre said in Why the SMB Still Needs Hardware RAID:

                                @scottalanmiller said in Why the SMB Still Needs Hardware RAID:

                                The most common RAIN approach that I see is taking all disks in the pool, noting their nodal presence and using mirroring to distribute the data so that data mirrors never go to the same disk and/or the same node. So a little like a networked RAID 1E but with more flexibility and the option to add nodal separation and performance testing so that data moves to where it is used.

                                Are you aware of any open source RAIN systems?

                                Gluster and Swift

                                I think Ceph and Lustre may be two others.

                                Lustre is RAIN, but is closed. Gluster was the open replacement for Lustre.

                                Just a quick search showed that Lustre was GPL 2.0, not sure if that is new or not.

                                Oh wow, must be new. It was crazy expensive in 2006 when we were really investigating it. That's awesome.

                                Ah looks like it went open source in 2010.

                                Oh cool, so I remember things well then. I'm just out of date. Gluster probably forced their hand, why would anyone consider Lustre when it was closed source? The answer was probably... they wouldn't and didn't.

                                Yep, I'd assume that was the case. Especially when it is a such a specific, and at the time, niche market.

                                And when Gluster went directly after them, even in name.

                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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