Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be
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It's in my contract, so if I don't serve notice then I'm in breach of contract and could be sued for damages. No jail time though
Normal job. Private sector.
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@Carnival-Boy said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
It's in my contract, so if I don't serve notice then I'm in breach of contract and could be sued for damages. No jail time though
Normal job. Private sector.
Interesting - I've personally never had an employment contract - It's rarely - if ever - a thing here in the US.
Sure there are terms, even in writing, but nothing I've even seen or heard of (in the US) that is an actual formal contract.
The main main exception has been around training. I've heard of many companies making employees sign a contract to stay for a min of X amount of time if the company provides/pays for training. Of course the company could still fire them, and I have no clue if the courts would make the employee pay back the training if they quit before X time. -
@Dashrender being paid to train is a legal process that an employer can require an employment term. Which if the employee is fired for cause could be required to pay the employer back.
It's not uncommon at all.
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@Carnival-Boy Now let's talk about 3 months. How many employers are going to be willing to wait 3 months for you to become free from your last job? Perhaps the 'demand' for 3 months notice is so prevalent there that most companies realize they have no choice. That could be said for our 2 week notice here in the US - i.e. a hiring company in the US generally expect a person to not be available for at least 2 weeks after accepting an offer because they will give 2 weeks notice to their current employer.
But 3 months - this really seems more like a way to keep people from moving around between companies, all the benefit to the company - and piss off mr employee.
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@DustinB3403 said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@Dashrender being paid to train is a legal process that an employer can require an employment term. Which if the employee is fired for cause could be required to pay the employer back.
It's not uncommon at all.
If you're fired - I wouldn't expect to be required to pay anything back... but quitting - yeah I could see that. meh either way.
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@Dashrender Over in the EU the employers and employees have way more time off throughout the year than in the US.
I don't see anything abnormal here, and since it sounds like @Carnival-Boy is a contract employee it makes sense to have a leave clause.
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@Dashrender said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
But 3 months - this really seems more like a way to keep people from moving around between companies, all the benefit to the company - and piss off mr employee.
A bit, perhaps. But it works both ways. If they want to get rid of me, they also have to give me 3 months notice, which gives me plenty of time to find another job.
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@Carnival-Boy said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
another
Usually in the UK its 1 - 3 months notice from the employee... but often the employer only has to give you a few weeks/a month.
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@DustinB3403 said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@Dashrender Over in the EU the employers and employees have way more time off throughout the year than in the US.
I don't see anything abnormal here, and since it sounds like @Carnival-Boy is a contract employee it makes sense to have a leave clause.
what does time off have to do with anything?
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@Carnival-Boy said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@Dashrender said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
But 3 months - this really seems more like a way to keep people from moving around between companies, all the benefit to the company - and piss off mr employee.
A bit, perhaps. But it works both ways. If they want to get rid of me, they also have to give me 3 months notice, which gives me plenty of time to find another job.
WHAT? they can't just fire you? A layoff, I suppose I could understand the 3 months... but they can't fire you either? or am I over reading that?
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@Dashrender said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@DustinB3403 said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@Dashrender Over in the EU the employers and employees have way more time off throughout the year than in the US.
I don't see anything abnormal here, and since it sounds like @Carnival-Boy is a contract employee it makes sense to have a leave clause.
what does time off have to do with anything?
It sets expectations in the area.
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@DustinB3403 said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@Dashrender said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@DustinB3403 said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@Dashrender Over in the EU the employers and employees have way more time off throughout the year than in the US.
I don't see anything abnormal here, and since it sounds like @Carnival-Boy is a contract employee it makes sense to have a leave clause.
what does time off have to do with anything?
It sets expectations in the area.
I still don't see what that has to do with requiring 3 months leaving notice?
Are you saying that if in the US, we had 4-6 weeks vacation on average, you'd expect us to have to give a 1-3 months quiting notice to our companies? That seems crazy!
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@WLS-ITGuy said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@Carnival-Boy said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
Do you generally only give 2 weeks notice in the US?
Depends on the state. Wisconsin is a "hire at will" state. Technically no notice is needed but it is ideal to give 2 weeks.
hire at will has nothing to do with quitting
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This is almost starting to feel like Stockholm Syndrome. All the signs are flashing bright red that the employer is abusive. A blind man could see it. Yet we have the sympathy for the boss and the company who is abusive on a VERY regular basis.
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Here are my recommendations
- NO NEGOTIATING of ANY KIND
It is time to just leave the relationship in an abrupt way. No offers to work ANY additional hours or any additional projects. I seriously wouldn't even entertain offers for $100 an hour at this point. Just like an abusive spouse, they will offer anything to make you happy again and just start taking advantage again. They have repeatedly abused you by taking away pay, demanding unrealistic things, and even worse pay you for a part time gig while expecting you to automate everything and use as little hours as possible. When you lay it all out there it is terrrible. Why would you consider extending a relationship or making any negotiations. At this point, NO NEGOTIATING should occur. How can you trust this party to change their ways when they have a history of screwing you 15 ways to Sunday.
- They will NEVER appreciate you so FUCK em
No matter how much documentation and automation you perform, it will never be enough. They are going to have a BAD opinion of you after you leave no matter what, because they are pieces of shit and that is what people like that do. There is no way you can ever leave with them being happy. So CUT THE TIES NOW!!!
- They spend ALOT of time and money in IT apparently
It sounds like your bosses have alot of time on their hands to devote to IT, even though they seem to not want to spend a cent. It sounds like they had time to examine all the documentation, come up with priorities, and literally write a game plan for you to leave. What non-IT management has time to do that kind of shit within the same day and the next day after your announcement. Obviously IT is a big concern for them, but they are either too stupid or proud to admit it.
- This place is DESTROYING YOU
Your career , at best, is being held up considerably by this employer. I know you run a side business, but this job is taking alot of your time. Not only is it taking your time, but you are constantly implementing bad practices because company is extremely cheap and wont pay for things that cost $1 a month per user, but have no problem paying you 10 hours at $35-50 an hour. It makes no sense and is extremely bad practice. You are doing this stuff over and over again, day by day. It may not effect you every single day, but long term it has a bad negative effect. You aren't doing things by best practice. Once you step away, you will see this immediately.
I CAN SAY ALL THIS BECAUSE I HAVE EXPERIENCED IT. I AM SO HAPPY TO BE WHERE I AM NOW IN MY CAREER
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Make sure you did absolutely everything within the local employment code/law - proper notice time, everything documented and the management signed off on.
I had exactly one horrid employer in my life. When I found a way to leave, I did everything by the book, with a checklist, because I knew they sued everyone who left them, every time.
When I left, my friends at the office told me they were meeting with a lawyer the very same day. Nothing came of it, because I didn't give them anything to base a lawsuit on, but the fact that they tried remains.
As a bonus, I found out they lost 3 of their largest customers (~$4.5M/year) as soon as I left.
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@dyasny said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
Make sure you did absolutely everything within the local employment code/law - proper notice time, everything documented and the management signed off on.
I had exactly one horrid employer in my life. When I found a way to leave, I did everything by the book, with a checklist, because I knew they sued everyone who left them, every time.
When I left, my friends at the office told me they were meeting with a lawyer the very same day. Nothing came of it, because I didn't give them anything to base a lawsuit on, but the fact that they tried remains.
As a bonus, I found out they lost 3 of their largest customers (~$4.5M/year) as soon as I left.
He is a regular employee without any specific contract. There is nothing to do except walk out the door.
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@JaredBusch said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
He is a regular employee without any specific contract. There is nothing to do except walk out the door.
There's usually the local employment code dictated by the state/province/etc. All disputes are typically regulated according to that, superseded only by whatever additional terms are mentioned in a signed contract. If there is no contract, there's only the law. If there is no contract, an employee (and employer) are still in an employment relationship, governed by that law.
Typically it's that law that states you need to give X weeks of notice, and the same law that protects the employee from not getting paid for those weeks.
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@dyasny said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
Typically it's that law that states you need to give X weeks of notice, and the same law that protects the employee from not getting paid for those weeks.
Not in states that are "employment at will". Plus he has no contract. He could've just walked without discussing with anyone and never showed up again.
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@DustinB3403 so he walks out the door, and the employer refuses to pay what is owed for the last month. And there is no regulation for such a case? Damn, I wouldn't want to live in a place where this is the norm.
