VM Suggestions? Best Practice?
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@Dashrender said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@Dashrender said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
You mentioned you're using Windows on the desktop - use Hyper-V in Windows 10 Pro. Hopefully your boss didn't cheap out and get you a laptop with Windows 10 Home on it.
This is my laptop - Not a work laptop.
This is for personal as well as business reasons.(that way they dont have a say in what I do on my Laptop )
In that case - Learn what you can, as fast as you can, then GTFO! The boss clearly doesn't actually desire smarter employees - he's pushing everything off on his support contracts - while that might be a good business decision, it's not good for you as an individual.
We've been telling him this for quite a while.
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@WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@scottalanmiller said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@scottalanmiller said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@DustinB3403 I'll have to look into that.
We use Windows - would that effect your answer?Your "runs ON Windows choices" are VirtualBox (free) and Vmware (not free.) That's it.
If you have Windows Pro, then you can use Windows ON Hyper-V. But otherwise, you can't. Windows is severely limiting here.
Terminals run anything from xp to Windows 10
What the VM is going to be isn't relevant. It's your requirement to have Windows on the desktop that is the problem.
I'll be running Windows 10 - Pro
So we're back to these options. VirtualBox as Type 1 (v6 is out iirc) or Hyper-V with a Windows 10 Pro control guest.
Hyper-V is my least recommended approach here.
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@Dashrender said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@scottalanmiller said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
KVM is really good for this.
Can you get local console access with KVM?
I'm guessing yes - you install a GUI into say, Fedora, setup KVM - and use the Cockpit to manage the local KVM?
Absolutely. Just like Hyper-V on Windows Pro, but free.
No need for KVM, there is full desktop GUIs to use, just like Hyper-V.
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@scottalanmiller said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@Dashrender said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
You mentioned you're using Windows on the desktop - use Hyper-V in Windows 10 Pro. Hopefully your boss didn't cheap out and get you a laptop with Windows 10 Home on it.
You also likely want at least 16 GB of RAM so you make sure you have plenty to share between your VMs and the main Windows 10 host OS.
You can download the trial version of Windows 10 and Windows Server to setup a lab environment in your VM setup on your machine.
The other issue you're likely to run into today is disk space. Windows 10 like 40+ GB of space, so your base(host) OS will need a min of 40 GB, and each new VM will likely want that much as well. I'd see about getting a 512 GB SSD in your new laptop if possible - you could even replace whatever it comes with an aftermarket drive if needed, they are getting pretty cheap now.
so upgrade Ram - get a Larger SSD and set up Hyper-v to run Vm's .
Sweet.
You have Pro?
yes, The laptop I am getting is Windows 10 Pro.
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@Dashrender said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@DustinB3403 said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@Dashrender said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
You mentioned you're using Windows on the desktop - use Hyper-V in Windows 10 Pro. Hopefully your boss didn't cheap out and get you a laptop with Windows 10 Home on it.
You also likely want at least 16 GB of RAM so you make sure you have plenty to share between your VMs and the main Windows 10 host OS.
You can download the trial version of Windows 10 and Windows Server to setup a lab environment in your VM setup on your machine.
The other issue you're likely to run into today is disk space. Windows 10 like 40+ GB of space, so your base(host) OS will need a min of 40 GB, and each new VM will likely want that much as well. I'd see about getting a 512 GB SSD in your new laptop if possible - you could even replace whatever it comes with an aftermarket drive if needed, they are getting pretty cheap now.
so upgrade Ram - get a Larger SSD and set up Hyper-v to run Vm's .
Sweet.
Hyper-V is a Type 1 Hypervisor. It creates what is essentially a Dom0 out of what is presumably Windows 10.
While this will work I would avoid it if at all possible and if you are wanting a Type 1 instead of a Type 2 as has been recommended by @Dashrender use KVM from a Fedora desktop instead of Windows.
Smaller footprinter, less resources consumed and the same end result.
Not exactly the same result - he has to learn the linux tools while also learning the KVM tools.. but meh.. it's definitely an option.
Nope, no tools needed to learn. It's just "use". It's the easiest virtualization you've ever seen. Easier than VirtualBox, easier than Hyper-V on Windows Pro. Not much easier, as all of them are so easy you can't really make it easier. But.. THAT easy. There is no "learning curve" for KVM in this way beyond just reading what is on the screen. Someone who has never seen it before can use it at full speed without reading about it first.
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@WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@scottalanmiller said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
What is everybody using? I've used Orcale VirtualBox in the past but had so many problems with it.
What kind of problems?
VBox is the most popular for this kind of thing, especially if you are using Windows Home where Hyper-V isn't available in a "local console" style that you would want.
KVM is really good for this.
Last time I used it, It wouldnt run properly, wouldn't update. I havent used it in a while.
Install with Chocolatey then. I've never seen an issue with VBox running or updating unless it was exposing a broken OS underneath.
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@scottalanmiller said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@Dashrender said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@DustinB3403 said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@Dashrender said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
You mentioned you're using Windows on the desktop - use Hyper-V in Windows 10 Pro. Hopefully your boss didn't cheap out and get you a laptop with Windows 10 Home on it.
You also likely want at least 16 GB of RAM so you make sure you have plenty to share between your VMs and the main Windows 10 host OS.
You can download the trial version of Windows 10 and Windows Server to setup a lab environment in your VM setup on your machine.
The other issue you're likely to run into today is disk space. Windows 10 like 40+ GB of space, so your base(host) OS will need a min of 40 GB, and each new VM will likely want that much as well. I'd see about getting a 512 GB SSD in your new laptop if possible - you could even replace whatever it comes with an aftermarket drive if needed, they are getting pretty cheap now.
so upgrade Ram - get a Larger SSD and set up Hyper-v to run Vm's .
Sweet.
Hyper-V is a Type 1 Hypervisor. It creates what is essentially a Dom0 out of what is presumably Windows 10.
While this will work I would avoid it if at all possible and if you are wanting a Type 1 instead of a Type 2 as has been recommended by @Dashrender use KVM from a Fedora desktop instead of Windows.
Smaller footprinter, less resources consumed and the same end result.
Not exactly the same result - he has to learn the linux tools while also learning the KVM tools.. but meh.. it's definitely an option.
Nope, no tools needed to learn. It's just "use". It's the easiest virtualization you've ever seen. Easier than VirtualBox, easier than Hyper-V on Windows Pro. Not much easier, as all of them are so easy you can't really make it easier. But.. THAT easy. There is no "learning curve" for KVM in this way beyond just reading what is on the screen. Someone who has never seen it before can use it at full speed without reading about it first.
This I disagree with whole-heartedly.
Everything requires some learning and familiarity. Granted all solutions may be on par with the simplicity but you can't make the claim that the GUI is intuitively the easiest for "everyone without experience".
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@DustinB3403 said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
The end result that @WrCombs is looking for is to create VM's on this laptop to test and troubleshoot issues that are being experienced in the field.
What would be the ways to do this?
VirtualBox is one
KVM is another
Hyper-V is anotherWhat are the benefits to each?
Benefits...
VirtualBox: Type 2 and runs ON Windows as is.
Hyper-V: Type 1 and is free IF he already owns Windows Pro and he can keep Windows (but in a VM)
KVM: Type 1 and free, but he has to change his base OS to Linux and Windows moves to a VM (but manually) -
@scottalanmiller said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@scottalanmiller said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
What is everybody using? I've used Orcale VirtualBox in the past but had so many problems with it.
What kind of problems?
VBox is the most popular for this kind of thing, especially if you are using Windows Home where Hyper-V isn't available in a "local console" style that you would want.
KVM is really good for this.
Last time I used it, It wouldnt run properly, wouldn't update. I havent used it in a while.
Install with Chocolatey then. I've never seen an issue with VBox running or updating unless it was exposing a broken OS underneath.
That's how I installed it to begin with - For some reason it would not work for me the way I wanted it to .
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@WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@scottalanmiller said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@scottalanmiller said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@DustinB3403 I'll have to look into that.
We use Windows - would that effect your answer?Your "runs ON Windows choices" are VirtualBox (free) and Vmware (not free.) That's it.
If you have Windows Pro, then you can use Windows ON Hyper-V. But otherwise, you can't. Windows is severely limiting here.
Terminals run anything from xp to Windows 10
What the VM is going to be isn't relevant. It's your requirement to have Windows on the desktop that is the problem.
I'll be running Windows 10 - Pro
If you already have Pro, then Hyper-V is the answer. It's just too simple to pass up. Even if VirtualBox worked, you'd not want it.
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@WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@scottalanmiller said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@scottalanmiller said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
What is everybody using? I've used Orcale VirtualBox in the past but had so many problems with it.
What kind of problems?
VBox is the most popular for this kind of thing, especially if you are using Windows Home where Hyper-V isn't available in a "local console" style that you would want.
KVM is really good for this.
Last time I used it, It wouldnt run properly, wouldn't update. I havent used it in a while.
Install with Chocolatey then. I've never seen an issue with VBox running or updating unless it was exposing a broken OS underneath.
That's how I installed it to begin with - For some reason it would not work for me the way I wanted it to .
Did your CPU support virtualization? That could be the only reason I could see it not working. Or maybe virtualization was disabled in BIOS. . .
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@DustinB3403 said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
VirtualBox and KVM and Hyper-V are all free (assuming he has Windows 10 Pro or higher).
VirtualBox is a Type 1, its installed into his existing operating system and can be removed without any ill effect.
KVM is open source, and is a Type 2 is pretty easy to get going with.
Hyper-V is also a Type 2 and isn't difficult but he might be limited by what version of Windows he has.You got dyslexic. VirtualBox is Type 2. Hyper-V and KVM are type 1/
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@scottalanmiller said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@DustinB3403 said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
VirtualBox and KVM and Hyper-V are all free (assuming he has Windows 10 Pro or higher).
VirtualBox is a Type 1, its installed into his existing operating system and can be removed without any ill effect.
KVM is open source, and is a Type 2 is pretty easy to get going with.
Hyper-V is also a Type 2 and isn't difficult but he might be limited by what version of Windows he has.You got dyslexic. VirtualBox is Type 2. Hyper-V and KVM are type 1/
yup. . . fixing that now.
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@WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@scottalanmiller said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@Dashrender said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
You mentioned you're using Windows on the desktop - use Hyper-V in Windows 10 Pro. Hopefully your boss didn't cheap out and get you a laptop with Windows 10 Home on it.
You also likely want at least 16 GB of RAM so you make sure you have plenty to share between your VMs and the main Windows 10 host OS.
You can download the trial version of Windows 10 and Windows Server to setup a lab environment in your VM setup on your machine.
The other issue you're likely to run into today is disk space. Windows 10 like 40+ GB of space, so your base(host) OS will need a min of 40 GB, and each new VM will likely want that much as well. I'd see about getting a 512 GB SSD in your new laptop if possible - you could even replace whatever it comes with an aftermarket drive if needed, they are getting pretty cheap now.
so upgrade Ram - get a Larger SSD and set up Hyper-v to run Vm's .
Sweet.
You have Pro?
yes, The laptop I am getting is Windows 10 Pro.
"Am getting?"
Why are you getting Pro for home? Home lab AD use?
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@DustinB3403 said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@scottalanmiller said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@scottalanmiller said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
What is everybody using? I've used Orcale VirtualBox in the past but had so many problems with it.
What kind of problems?
VBox is the most popular for this kind of thing, especially if you are using Windows Home where Hyper-V isn't available in a "local console" style that you would want.
KVM is really good for this.
Last time I used it, It wouldnt run properly, wouldn't update. I havent used it in a while.
Install with Chocolatey then. I've never seen an issue with VBox running or updating unless it was exposing a broken OS underneath.
That's how I installed it to begin with - For some reason it would not work for me the way I wanted it to .
Did your CPU support virtualization? That could be the only reason I could see it not working. Or maybe virtualization was disabled in BIOS. . .
Well... That laptop died so I dont really have a way to check
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@scottalanmiller said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
Your "runs ON Windows choices" are VirtualBox (free) and Vmware (not free.) That's it.
^^ VMware Player 15 is free for non commercial use. I use it for a few VM's fine.
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@DustinB3403 said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@scottalanmiller said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@Dashrender said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@DustinB3403 said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@Dashrender said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
You mentioned you're using Windows on the desktop - use Hyper-V in Windows 10 Pro. Hopefully your boss didn't cheap out and get you a laptop with Windows 10 Home on it.
You also likely want at least 16 GB of RAM so you make sure you have plenty to share between your VMs and the main Windows 10 host OS.
You can download the trial version of Windows 10 and Windows Server to setup a lab environment in your VM setup on your machine.
The other issue you're likely to run into today is disk space. Windows 10 like 40+ GB of space, so your base(host) OS will need a min of 40 GB, and each new VM will likely want that much as well. I'd see about getting a 512 GB SSD in your new laptop if possible - you could even replace whatever it comes with an aftermarket drive if needed, they are getting pretty cheap now.
so upgrade Ram - get a Larger SSD and set up Hyper-v to run Vm's .
Sweet.
Hyper-V is a Type 1 Hypervisor. It creates what is essentially a Dom0 out of what is presumably Windows 10.
While this will work I would avoid it if at all possible and if you are wanting a Type 1 instead of a Type 2 as has been recommended by @Dashrender use KVM from a Fedora desktop instead of Windows.
Smaller footprinter, less resources consumed and the same end result.
Not exactly the same result - he has to learn the linux tools while also learning the KVM tools.. but meh.. it's definitely an option.
Nope, no tools needed to learn. It's just "use". It's the easiest virtualization you've ever seen. Easier than VirtualBox, easier than Hyper-V on Windows Pro. Not much easier, as all of them are so easy you can't really make it easier. But.. THAT easy. There is no "learning curve" for KVM in this way beyond just reading what is on the screen. Someone who has never seen it before can use it at full speed without reading about it first.
This I disagree with whole-heartedly.
Everything requires some learning and familiarity. Granted all solutions may be on par with the simplicity but you can't make the claim that the GUI is intuitively the easiest for "everyone without experience".
It really doesn't. There is SO much software that we can use "the first time" without learning. It's all just so easy. Do you need to learn it, sure. Can you learn it by looking at the screen in the time it takes to move the mouse where it needs to go though? Yes.
It's like the learning curve of a new book. Once you know English and standard book formats, each new book takes milliseconds to learn.
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@hobbit666 said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@scottalanmiller said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
Your "runs ON Windows choices" are VirtualBox (free) and Vmware (not free.) That's it.
^^ VMware Player 15 is free for non commercial use. I use it for a few VM's fine.
It's a Type 2 and he has Windows 10 Pro.
So Hyper-V would work well here, but I'd still recommend against it.
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@DustinB3403 said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@scottalanmiller said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@scottalanmiller said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
What is everybody using? I've used Orcale VirtualBox in the past but had so many problems with it.
What kind of problems?
VBox is the most popular for this kind of thing, especially if you are using Windows Home where Hyper-V isn't available in a "local console" style that you would want.
KVM is really good for this.
Last time I used it, It wouldnt run properly, wouldn't update. I havent used it in a while.
Install with Chocolatey then. I've never seen an issue with VBox running or updating unless it was exposing a broken OS underneath.
That's how I installed it to begin with - For some reason it would not work for me the way I wanted it to .
Did your CPU support virtualization? That could be the only reason I could see it not working. Or maybe virtualization was disabled in BIOS. . .
In which case, nothing will work.
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@scottalanmiller said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@scottalanmiller said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
@Dashrender said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:
You mentioned you're using Windows on the desktop - use Hyper-V in Windows 10 Pro. Hopefully your boss didn't cheap out and get you a laptop with Windows 10 Home on it.
You also likely want at least 16 GB of RAM so you make sure you have plenty to share between your VMs and the main Windows 10 host OS.
You can download the trial version of Windows 10 and Windows Server to setup a lab environment in your VM setup on your machine.
The other issue you're likely to run into today is disk space. Windows 10 like 40+ GB of space, so your base(host) OS will need a min of 40 GB, and each new VM will likely want that much as well. I'd see about getting a 512 GB SSD in your new laptop if possible - you could even replace whatever it comes with an aftermarket drive if needed, they are getting pretty cheap now.
so upgrade Ram - get a Larger SSD and set up Hyper-v to run Vm's .
Sweet.
You have Pro?
yes, The laptop I am getting is Windows 10 Pro.
"Am getting?"
Why are you getting Pro for home? Home lab AD use?
Okay - Just looked at the amazon order - It is Windows 10 home (which is frustrating cause I thought it said pro)
"Am getting" as in in the mail - potentially going to be there tonight by 8:00 pm according to the Order tracking.,
