Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool
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@dashrender said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
It's fine for the accountant to pimp QB or any product they like (of course, QB being such a bad product just shows that the accountant doesn't know what a good product is, and well, you should avoid them then) because they are a sales person when they are making a recommendation. The exception is when you hire someone (probably not an accountant) to help you pick an accounting package. In this case you are paying them for an opinion, and they are working for you, making the best business decision for you.
Spot on. There is nothing wrong with your accountant being a sales person for QB. That's the social contract of sales. Since you don't pay your accountant to be a consultant to you, they have zero obligation (and no logical reason) to represent your interest. Any use of their advice would be obviously a violation of the duties of the buyer's agent to protect a business from predatory sales. But that can only be a fault on the buyer's end, not the seller's. It's a social contract that the account is there to sell you what is in their interest, not yours.
The person you would hire to select a software package would, of course, by your IT consultant. It's IT needs, not accounting needs, that primarily drive all IT purchases. You then select accountants that meet your business needs. You don't select your outsourced labor and then build your business to maximize your outsourcer's profits. You build your business to be a good business and select employees and outsourced staff that meet those needs. They work for you, not you for them.
So, in the case of IT in Auburn, Mike is the person that his customers should be turning to for accounting software advice as he's the local IT expert. His insight into why QB is dangerous and doesn't meet business or accounting needs well should be driving what is used in the market. No one should ever be asking an accountant about that at the best of times and certainly never when the accountant is a paid representative of a vendor.
That's literally the same as walking into the Ford dealer and asking what brand of car to buy. We all know that if you do that, you made the decision to buy Ford already. If you claimed it you had not and that you were trusting a consultant to pick the right car brand for you everyone would openly call out that lie. That it is a QB sales person instead of a Ford one doesn't change that. It's a one product sales person, in choosing that sales person, the choice of what to buy was already made.
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Not sure how old this thread is, nonetheless, it was a good read. As a CPA myself, I deal with QB all the time, and agree with all its flaws, and yes, some are major flaws, as in the multi-user DBMS hack they implemented. I had to verify with Intuit, that users direct network access to the database file was an absolute requirement, because I did not want the fault, for requiring the QBW database file to be directly accessible and victim of a crytoware attack.
I make it my prerogative to become familiar with all accounting packages/tools my target business clients may use or benefit from. However, “for better or worse” the majority of the small business clients I see, are using QuickBooks.
I get the impression for the local small businesses, it is very difficult to find a decent experienced bookkeeper or accountant, for the right price, who knows anything, but QuickBooks. Granted, there are alternative options like "https://bench.co/", but those options only work for very small businesses, or when you do not need in-house accounting personnel onsite. (which could ask another question) Seems in small businesses at the 10-20 million gross revenue range, with staff budgeting constraints, and one or two full time in-house accountants, this continues to be a problem. This issue has gotten better over the past 10 years or so, as some younger bookkeeper/accountants are leaning more than one accounting platforms, but QuickBooks is still one of them.
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I had never seen this thread before, but since it jumped to the top of my unread I took a peak. The group I'm with currently has pretty close ties to one of the largest Practice Management Software developers in the country, and it's architecture is exactly the same. This is also why Ransomware is such an issue, considering everyone on the LAN normally has Read/Write access to the DB files. Terrible development is sadly far too common.
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@spiral said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
Not sure how old this thread is, nonetheless, it was a good read. As a CPA myself, I deal with QB all the time, and agree with all its flaws, and yes, some are major flaws, as in the multi-user DBMS hack they implemented. I had to verify with Intuit, that users direct network access to the database file was an absolute requirement, because I did not want the fault, for requiring the QBW database file to be directly accessible and victim of a crytoware attack.
I make it my prerogative to become familiar with all accounting packages/tools my target business clients may use or benefit from. However, “for better or worse” the majority of the small business clients I see, are using QuickBooks.
I get the impression for the local small businesses, it is very difficult to find a decent experienced bookkeeper or accountant, for the right price, who knows anything, but QuickBooks. Granted, there are alternative options like "https://bench.co/", but those options only work for very small businesses, or when you do not need in-house accounting personnel onsite. (which could ask another question) Seems in small businesses at the 10-20 million gross revenue range, with staff budgeting constraints, and one or two full time in-house accountants, this continues to be a problem. This issue has gotten better over the past 10 years or so, as some younger bookkeeper/accountants are leaning more than one accounting platforms, but QuickBooks is still one of them.
As a CPA maybe you have more insight, but it seems pretty easy from where I am to just... find other accountants. That most are QB proficient is certainly what it seems to be. But finding good ones that can and will use other packages has always seemed very easy.
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@scottalanmiller You are correct about "finding" other accountants, however, it looks to be the cheaper or less experienced bookkeepers, only know one accounting package which happens to be QB. (Intuit targeted that market) Larger companies with larger hiring budgets will hire the accountant with more experience with ERP and other accounting packages. However, it would be totally unacceptable, and just bad business if a CPA working in public practice required all their client to use QuickBooks.
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@spiral said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
@scottalanmiller You are correct about "finding" other accountants, however, it looks to be the cheaper or less experienced bookkeepers, only know one accounting package which happens to be QB. (Intuit targeted that market) Larger companies with larger hiring budgets will hire the accountant with more experience with ERP and other accounting packages. However, it would be totally unacceptable, and just bad business if a CPA working in public practice required all their client to use QuickBooks.
Cheaper is a relative term, of course
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@scottalanmiller yes it is. clarification: $30-40 K salary in the Midwest.
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@scottalanmiller said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
@spiral said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
Not sure how old this thread is, nonetheless, it was a good read. As a CPA myself, I deal with QB all the time, and agree with all its flaws, and yes, some are major flaws, as in the multi-user DBMS hack they implemented. I had to verify with Intuit, that users direct network access to the database file was an absolute requirement, because I did not want the fault, for requiring the QBW database file to be directly accessible and victim of a crytoware attack.
I make it my prerogative to become familiar with all accounting packages/tools my target business clients may use or benefit from. However, “for better or worse” the majority of the small business clients I see, are using QuickBooks.
I get the impression for the local small businesses, it is very difficult to find a decent experienced bookkeeper or accountant, for the right price, who knows anything, but QuickBooks. Granted, there are alternative options like "https://bench.co/", but those options only work for very small businesses, or when you do not need in-house accounting personnel onsite. (which could ask another question) Seems in small businesses at the 10-20 million gross revenue range, with staff budgeting constraints, and one or two full time in-house accountants, this continues to be a problem. This issue has gotten better over the past 10 years or so, as some younger bookkeeper/accountants are leaning more than one accounting platforms, but QuickBooks is still one of them.
As a CPA maybe you have more insight, but it seems pretty easy from where I am to just... find other accountants. That most are QB proficient is certainly what it seems to be. But finding good ones that can and will use other packages has always seemed very easy.
I wonder if it's more the SMB want a cheap package.. and QB is pretty cheap compared to many others... plus it has that Cisco effect - you see it while walking through airports, so it must be good.
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@dashrender said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
@scottalanmiller said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
@spiral said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
Not sure how old this thread is, nonetheless, it was a good read. As a CPA myself, I deal with QB all the time, and agree with all its flaws, and yes, some are major flaws, as in the multi-user DBMS hack they implemented. I had to verify with Intuit, that users direct network access to the database file was an absolute requirement, because I did not want the fault, for requiring the QBW database file to be directly accessible and victim of a crytoware attack.
I make it my prerogative to become familiar with all accounting packages/tools my target business clients may use or benefit from. However, “for better or worse” the majority of the small business clients I see, are using QuickBooks.
I get the impression for the local small businesses, it is very difficult to find a decent experienced bookkeeper or accountant, for the right price, who knows anything, but QuickBooks. Granted, there are alternative options like "https://bench.co/", but those options only work for very small businesses, or when you do not need in-house accounting personnel onsite. (which could ask another question) Seems in small businesses at the 10-20 million gross revenue range, with staff budgeting constraints, and one or two full time in-house accountants, this continues to be a problem. This issue has gotten better over the past 10 years or so, as some younger bookkeeper/accountants are leaning more than one accounting platforms, but QuickBooks is still one of them.
As a CPA maybe you have more insight, but it seems pretty easy from where I am to just... find other accountants. That most are QB proficient is certainly what it seems to be. But finding good ones that can and will use other packages has always seemed very easy.
I wonder if it's more the SMB want a cheap package.. and QB is pretty cheap compared to many others... plus it has that Cisco effect - you see it while walking through airports, so it must be good.
QB isn't exactly cheap. What are you comparing against? Maybe it is cheaper than Xero, but requiring a server for more than one user is super expensive. And making you need Windows instead of Chromebooks, also super expensive. And compared to Wave Apps that is totally free, it's super expensive.
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@scottalanmiller said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
@dashrender said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
@scottalanmiller said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
@spiral said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
Not sure how old this thread is, nonetheless, it was a good read. As a CPA myself, I deal with QB all the time, and agree with all its flaws, and yes, some are major flaws, as in the multi-user DBMS hack they implemented. I had to verify with Intuit, that users direct network access to the database file was an absolute requirement, because I did not want the fault, for requiring the QBW database file to be directly accessible and victim of a crytoware attack.
I make it my prerogative to become familiar with all accounting packages/tools my target business clients may use or benefit from. However, “for better or worse” the majority of the small business clients I see, are using QuickBooks.
I get the impression for the local small businesses, it is very difficult to find a decent experienced bookkeeper or accountant, for the right price, who knows anything, but QuickBooks. Granted, there are alternative options like "https://bench.co/", but those options only work for very small businesses, or when you do not need in-house accounting personnel onsite. (which could ask another question) Seems in small businesses at the 10-20 million gross revenue range, with staff budgeting constraints, and one or two full time in-house accountants, this continues to be a problem. This issue has gotten better over the past 10 years or so, as some younger bookkeeper/accountants are leaning more than one accounting platforms, but QuickBooks is still one of them.
As a CPA maybe you have more insight, but it seems pretty easy from where I am to just... find other accountants. That most are QB proficient is certainly what it seems to be. But finding good ones that can and will use other packages has always seemed very easy.
I wonder if it's more the SMB want a cheap package.. and QB is pretty cheap compared to many others... plus it has that Cisco effect - you see it while walking through airports, so it must be good.
QB isn't exactly cheap. What are you comparing against? Maybe it is cheaper than Xero, but requiring a server for more than one user is super expensive. And making you need Windows instead of Chromebooks, also super expensive. And compared to Wave Apps that is totally free, it's super expensive.
a server - ha.. you mean a share on Windows 10. You're already running on Windows so no extra cost there.
But the fact that you NEED windows, yeah that can make it more expensive.
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@dashrender said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
@scottalanmiller said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
@dashrender said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
@scottalanmiller said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
@spiral said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
Not sure how old this thread is, nonetheless, it was a good read. As a CPA myself, I deal with QB all the time, and agree with all its flaws, and yes, some are major flaws, as in the multi-user DBMS hack they implemented. I had to verify with Intuit, that users direct network access to the database file was an absolute requirement, because I did not want the fault, for requiring the QBW database file to be directly accessible and victim of a crytoware attack.
I make it my prerogative to become familiar with all accounting packages/tools my target business clients may use or benefit from. However, “for better or worse” the majority of the small business clients I see, are using QuickBooks.
I get the impression for the local small businesses, it is very difficult to find a decent experienced bookkeeper or accountant, for the right price, who knows anything, but QuickBooks. Granted, there are alternative options like "https://bench.co/", but those options only work for very small businesses, or when you do not need in-house accounting personnel onsite. (which could ask another question) Seems in small businesses at the 10-20 million gross revenue range, with staff budgeting constraints, and one or two full time in-house accountants, this continues to be a problem. This issue has gotten better over the past 10 years or so, as some younger bookkeeper/accountants are leaning more than one accounting platforms, but QuickBooks is still one of them.
As a CPA maybe you have more insight, but it seems pretty easy from where I am to just... find other accountants. That most are QB proficient is certainly what it seems to be. But finding good ones that can and will use other packages has always seemed very easy.
I wonder if it's more the SMB want a cheap package.. and QB is pretty cheap compared to many others... plus it has that Cisco effect - you see it while walking through airports, so it must be good.
QB isn't exactly cheap. What are you comparing against? Maybe it is cheaper than Xero, but requiring a server for more than one user is super expensive. And making you need Windows instead of Chromebooks, also super expensive. And compared to Wave Apps that is totally free, it's super expensive.
a server - ha.. you mean a share on Windows 10. You're already running on Windows so no extra cost there.
But the fact that you NEED windows, yeah that can make it more expensive.
That's not allowed. Windows 10 is not licensed for that use. Using it intentionally as a server is a licensing violation.
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@dashrender said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
But the fact that you NEED windows, yeah that can make it more expensive.
It requires a minimum of full Windows and ergo a full PC for every use. It then additionally requires a Windows Server and CALs if you have more than one user.
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@scottalanmiller said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
@dashrender said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
@scottalanmiller said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
@dashrender said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
@scottalanmiller said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
@spiral said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
Not sure how old this thread is, nonetheless, it was a good read. As a CPA myself, I deal with QB all the time, and agree with all its flaws, and yes, some are major flaws, as in the multi-user DBMS hack they implemented. I had to verify with Intuit, that users direct network access to the database file was an absolute requirement, because I did not want the fault, for requiring the QBW database file to be directly accessible and victim of a crytoware attack.
I make it my prerogative to become familiar with all accounting packages/tools my target business clients may use or benefit from. However, “for better or worse” the majority of the small business clients I see, are using QuickBooks.
I get the impression for the local small businesses, it is very difficult to find a decent experienced bookkeeper or accountant, for the right price, who knows anything, but QuickBooks. Granted, there are alternative options like "https://bench.co/", but those options only work for very small businesses, or when you do not need in-house accounting personnel onsite. (which could ask another question) Seems in small businesses at the 10-20 million gross revenue range, with staff budgeting constraints, and one or two full time in-house accountants, this continues to be a problem. This issue has gotten better over the past 10 years or so, as some younger bookkeeper/accountants are leaning more than one accounting platforms, but QuickBooks is still one of them.
As a CPA maybe you have more insight, but it seems pretty easy from where I am to just... find other accountants. That most are QB proficient is certainly what it seems to be. But finding good ones that can and will use other packages has always seemed very easy.
I wonder if it's more the SMB want a cheap package.. and QB is pretty cheap compared to many others... plus it has that Cisco effect - you see it while walking through airports, so it must be good.
QB isn't exactly cheap. What are you comparing against? Maybe it is cheaper than Xero, but requiring a server for more than one user is super expensive. And making you need Windows instead of Chromebooks, also super expensive. And compared to Wave Apps that is totally free, it's super expensive.
a server - ha.. you mean a share on Windows 10. You're already running on Windows so no extra cost there.
But the fact that you NEED windows, yeah that can make it more expensive.
That's not allowed. Windows 10 is not licensed for that use. Using it intentionally as a server is a licensing violation.
oh? this is something I'm completely unaware of - you're not legally allowed to share files out from a desktop Windows OS to another Desktop Windows OS?
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@dashrender said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
@scottalanmiller said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
@dashrender said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
@scottalanmiller said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
@dashrender said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
@scottalanmiller said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
@spiral said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
Not sure how old this thread is, nonetheless, it was a good read. As a CPA myself, I deal with QB all the time, and agree with all its flaws, and yes, some are major flaws, as in the multi-user DBMS hack they implemented. I had to verify with Intuit, that users direct network access to the database file was an absolute requirement, because I did not want the fault, for requiring the QBW database file to be directly accessible and victim of a crytoware attack.
I make it my prerogative to become familiar with all accounting packages/tools my target business clients may use or benefit from. However, “for better or worse” the majority of the small business clients I see, are using QuickBooks.
I get the impression for the local small businesses, it is very difficult to find a decent experienced bookkeeper or accountant, for the right price, who knows anything, but QuickBooks. Granted, there are alternative options like "https://bench.co/", but those options only work for very small businesses, or when you do not need in-house accounting personnel onsite. (which could ask another question) Seems in small businesses at the 10-20 million gross revenue range, with staff budgeting constraints, and one or two full time in-house accountants, this continues to be a problem. This issue has gotten better over the past 10 years or so, as some younger bookkeeper/accountants are leaning more than one accounting platforms, but QuickBooks is still one of them.
As a CPA maybe you have more insight, but it seems pretty easy from where I am to just... find other accountants. That most are QB proficient is certainly what it seems to be. But finding good ones that can and will use other packages has always seemed very easy.
I wonder if it's more the SMB want a cheap package.. and QB is pretty cheap compared to many others... plus it has that Cisco effect - you see it while walking through airports, so it must be good.
QB isn't exactly cheap. What are you comparing against? Maybe it is cheaper than Xero, but requiring a server for more than one user is super expensive. And making you need Windows instead of Chromebooks, also super expensive. And compared to Wave Apps that is totally free, it's super expensive.
a server - ha.. you mean a share on Windows 10. You're already running on Windows so no extra cost there.
But the fact that you NEED windows, yeah that can make it more expensive.
That's not allowed. Windows 10 is not licensed for that use. Using it intentionally as a server is a licensing violation.
oh? this is something I'm completely unaware of - you're not legally allowed to share files out from a desktop Windows OS to another Desktop Windows OS?
No, not unless you have CALs and a server license. It needs to happen for certain use cases, but they are supposed to be under the hood. Using a Windows desktop to replace a server is, at least traditionally, not allowed in the EULA. Has been the case as long as I've been aware. It's there for certain functionality, and for use when licensed, but use cases are pretty obvious... if you are making a server, you need a server. Otherwise you'd always just use a desktop.
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The wording from the EULA as to what is explicitely forbidden:
Section 2 c (v):
use the software as server software, for commercial hosting, make the software available for simultaneous use by multiple users over a network, install the software on a server and allow users to access it remotely, or install the software on a device for use only by remote users; -
This is was is specifically allowed: file services, print services, Internet information services, and Internet connection sharing and telephony services on the licensed device.
So pure file sharing is okay, but QB isn't that, it runs a server application. So while pure file sharing is okay for limited connections, QB doesn't fall under that.
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I don't know the under pinnings of QB enough, but is a service actually running on "the host" machine? I thought access to the QB DB was all that was happening. If that's true, that's just file sharing, and specifically allowed.
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There is an easy way to determine that QB isn't just using file sharing, but runs a service. QB cannot be installed on a Linux or even a Samba file server or a NAS. QB must be installed on Windows for the database portion, because it is not a shared file (or not exclusively a shared file), but includes a server application as well that neesd to communicate with the clients to make the database work. A really crappy, make shift RDBMS.
The file sharing piece would be allowed, but not enough to make QB work.
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I deal with QB.
Not only does it require a dedicated user to run as a service, the username used changes with every version release.
This one i havent bothered removing the old user that was used for 2015 version.
It also downloads the entire qb file to client computer every time someone logs in. And back again when they quit.
It also has default install options that cant be changed, like running QB Web Connector on windows login for every use with the application installed. Have to actually disable this for each user's desktop as there is no option to not include it in the QB client installer.
Then there is the backup issues, like me needing full admin access to qb data to do backups. The auto backup feature rarely works, backing up during work hours kick everybody out.
