Backup and Recovery Goals
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@Dashrender said:
And this is why I think Xen is a bad choice for Dustin to stay with. He can get a better solution by moving to Hyper-V, it's almost assured that StorageCraft can restore direct to VHD - but if it can't.. ok fine, stay with Xen.
No, why would you assume that? StorageCraft is the same on every platform. It definitely does nothing special with HyperV.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
And this is why I think Xen is a bad choice for Dustin to stay with. He can get a better solution by moving to Hyper-V, it's almost assured that StorageCraft can restore direct to VHD - but if it can't.. ok fine, stay with Xen.
No, why would you assume that? StorageCraft is the same on every platform. It definitely does nothing special with HyperV.
OK - Most VM specific products work at the VM level (I have no clue if SC does or not). I would think that would be the best place to work from for a complete recovery solution.
Are you saying SC doesn't backup the VHD?
in thinking about this - perhaps I'm giving more credit than is really due to most VM backup solutions... I'll stand corrected if that's the case.
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@Dashrender said:
OK - Most VM specific products work at the VM level (I have no clue if SC does or not). I would think that would be the best place to work from for a complete recovery solution.
Are you saying SC doesn't backup the VHD?
Correct. It is an agent backup from inside the VM.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
OK - Most VM specific products work at the VM level (I have no clue if SC does or not). I would think that would be the best place to work from for a complete recovery solution.
Are you saying SC doesn't backup the VHD?
Correct. It is an agent backup from inside the VM.
So Veeam and Unitrends are the two primary ones that work at the VM level?
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You two lost me....
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@Dashrender said:
So Veeam and Unitrends are the two primary ones that work at the VM level?
Correct. Which is why they are the only two discussed in most contexts. And Unitrends alone handles XenServer.
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@DustinB3403 said:
You two lost me....
Two fundamental types of backups: Agentless that talks to the platform and Agent-based that works from inside the VM.
Unitrends and Veeam do Agentless.
Everyone except Veeam does Agent.
You have to think about each differently. Are you backing up from the platform or from the OS. Platform backups are useless when dealing with physical boxes always.
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What I'm running now for our separate XenServer is Platform backup and restore.
The guest don't get a choice in it, and it's really, really simple to restore from. Import and done.
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I see the appeal in "import and done" once you do the import of the NAUBackup image, you still have to run the restore from the SC to get your differentials from the last full image. I'm not sure SC would be able to do that easily as SC wouldn't be aware of when the last full backup was done.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
So Veeam and Unitrends are the two primary ones that work at the VM level?
Correct. Which is why they are the only two discussed in most contexts. And Unitrends alone handles XenServer.
Thanks - AppAssure also used to be agentless, with Version 5 they changed and went back to an agent.
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
So Veeam and Unitrends are the two primary ones that work at the VM level?
Correct. Which is why they are the only two discussed in most contexts. And Unitrends alone handles XenServer.
Thanks - AppAssure also used to be agentless, with Version 5 they changed and went back to an agent.
Veeam and Unitrends own the agentless space. No reason to compete there.
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@DustinB3403 said:
What I'm running now for our separate XenServer is Platform backup and restore.
The guest don't get a choice in it, and it's really, really simple to restore from. Import and done.
But you can't do incremental or differential backups making a restore only useful on some occasions. And the ability to backup offsite pretty much goes away.
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Taking on pain during backups to enable smooth recoveries is generally a good tradeoff, but don't go too far. I feel like you are making an insanely complex and difficult backup process to either:
- Avoid just buying Unitrends which meets all of your needs in one product. Or...
- Living within the relatively minor pain threshold of a StorageCraft restore.
SC meets your needs for sure, just doesn't hit a checkbox that you seem obsessed with. If you ignore the desire to restore from an image, doesn't SC do what you need all on its own?
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@scottalanmiller I'm not an expert on SC which is why I'm asking the questions. I just don't know how I'd restore a VM from SC. Even the link you posted earlier explains it. But not having seen it happen/done makes me uncomfortable.
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@DustinB3403 said:
@scottalanmiller I'm not an expert on SC which is why I'm asking the questions. I just don't know how I'd restore a VM from SC. Even the link you posted earlier explains it. But not having seen it happen/done makes me uncomfortable.
You should be doing test restores on a scheduled basis no matter what toolset you use.
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Since we're talking about backing XenServer VMs up, would Xen Orchestra with a Starter license be worth considering here? More info here.
I just got the free version up and running, it seems like they do offer some nice tools on top of XenCenter if you get a paid license.
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@WingCreative Xen Orchestra sounds exactly like NAUBackup but with a GUI, which is offered for free.
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$70/mo seems pretty pricey for this.
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@scottalanmiller said:
$70/mo seems pretty pricey for this.
Especially if it doesn't offer incrementals/differentials.
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Not really meant as a backup tool, it's a management tool that just exposes the existing backup techology.
