ThanksAJ in Car Accident
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@scottalanmiller said:
@IRJ said:
Onroad = Control is more important, but traction creates the opportunity for control.
And the opportunity for a loss of it. Unless you have traction to break your control, you have no need of it because you would just keep going in a straight line. It is traction without control that causes spins.
No traction = stuck
which has it's own challenges
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@IRJ said:
No traction = stuck
which has it's own challenges
Little ones, like making you walk.
As I like to tell new drivers in NY.... if your RWD gets stuck, it is the car protecting you from yourself because any condition where you were unable to keep your RWD moving is a condition where another kind of car would have kept you moving beyond your ability to control it.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@IRJ said:
No traction = stuck
which has it's own challenges
Little ones, like making you walk.
As I like to tell new drivers in NY.... if your RWD gets stuck, it is the car protecting you from yourself because any condition where you were unable to keep your RWD moving is a condition where another kind of car would have kept you moving beyond your ability to control it.
It can be fatal, depending on when and where you get stuck.
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@IRJ said:
It can be fatal, depending on when and where you get stuck.
Then the fatal portion was driving in conditions too dangerous. It's pretty hard for a snowy condition where you get stuck being more dangerous stuck than in an accident. Accidents make you stuck too.
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I had a buddy gain too much traction on a dry road in an AWD Subara, the traction shot him over the road and into an end over end flip three times. He walked away, but he has more control and safety sliding that he did with all that traction.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@IRJ said:
It can be fatal, depending on when and where you get stuck.
Then the fatal portion was driving in conditions too dangerous. It's pretty hard for a snowy condition where you get stuck being more dangerous stuck than in an accident. Accidents make you stuck too.
Upstate NY was -28 the other night I believe. Maybe that was with windchill or whatever, but you wouldn't want to spend the night in your car during that.
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I've actually had enough traction that it pulled the wheels right off of a FWD. It sucks and let me tell you, all that traction when your wheels aren't pointing forward or together or directly under the car is horrible. Traction without control is really bad.
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p.s.
are my proof, and no, the small child is NOT me...
I miss that truck
EDIT Damn, it doesnt like facebook links...lemme upload somewhere else...
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Here is a reference to what I've been describing. In the north east, this is basic driving. But in much of the nation, it's often ignored as they just avoid bad conditions.
http://euclidobserver.com/read/2010/07/28/drivers-take-heed-of-the-top
Danger 3 - Induced Skid
At the limits of cornering, in the rain, or snow or when adverse conditions suddenly arise, like when sand is blown across curving Highway 1 in California, a typical driver will feel the car become unstable and instinctively lift his or her foot off the gas pedal. Whether you were taught to do this or take some other action, it seems most people just do it. Now in a RWD car, lifting your foot off the gas pedal is perfectly acceptable and will start to slow the rear wheels, anchoring the rear of the car behind you where it belongs, while not disturbing the grip of the front tires as they steer the car to safety. However, in a FWD car this is exactly the wrong thing to do.
When you surpass the limit of traction in a FWD car to the point where it becomes unstable, most people instinctively lift their foot off the gas pedal. This effectively slows the front wheels only, actually worsening the situation by potentially inducing a more severe skid of the front wheels towards the outside of the turn. This is known as understeer. A highly-trained driver knows that with FWD car, the driver should keep a bit of power on the front wheels and turn them into the turn to help bring the car out of the understeering state, while lightly applying the brakes to help slow the car to a safer speed.
This does not mean your FWD car is unsafe, because in most normal situations the problems described above do not occur. However, it is the fact that just when you need it most, FWD often lets you down. For the skill level found in most drivers and especially first time drivers, FWD may be more of a negative than an positive, which is why car companies like the Mercedes continues to design rear engine, rear drive vehicles. Talk with some of your friends who have been in a skid with a front drive vehicle and you’ll see a light bulb go on as they nod in agreement with the my explanation.
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The big danger of a FWD car is that when things get dangerous, you have to apply power and can't slow down. That means if you can't avoid an accident, you are going to have it faster.
In a RWD, you can slow in any accident condition, so you get to have the same accident (although less likely) but you have it with less speed and therefore more safely.
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I can attest to this problem.
I was driving back from JB's part of the country (Chicago) and when from a dense wooded area to an open plain where the winds has enabled ice to form over the road.
I did the wrong thing and let off the gas as we approached and the instant we touched that ice we started spinning - luckily the built in auto-stabilizer in the Prius did it's thing and halted the spin and kept us straight and on the road!
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@scottalanmiller said:
Now in a RWD car, lifting your foot off the gas pedal is perfectly acceptable and will start to slow the rear wheels, anchoring the rear of the car behind you where it belongs, while not disturbing the grip of the front tires as they steer the car to safety. However, in a FWD car this is exactly the wrong thing to do.*Just happened to me last night. Didn't have the truck in 4wd and I was going around a turn. Back end went into the other lane, I let off the gas and it corrected itself. If I was in my Veloster, I probably would have been in an accident.
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@Dashrender said:
I can attest to this problem.
I was driving back from JB's part of the country (Chicago) and when from a dense wooded area to an open plain where the winds has enabled ice to form over the road.
I did the wrong thing and let off the gas as we approached and the instant we touched that ice we started spinning - luckily the built in auto-stabilizer in the Prius did it's thing and halted the spin and kept us straight and on the road!
At least the Prius can do limited 4 wheel drive as well when needed. They really don't impress on gas millage, but that doesn't make them bad cars (especially for winter driving!)
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@travisdh1 said:
@Dashrender said:
I can attest to this problem.
I was driving back from JB's part of the country (Chicago) and when from a dense wooded area to an open plain where the winds has enabled ice to form over the road.
I did the wrong thing and let off the gas as we approached and the instant we touched that ice we started spinning - luckily the built in auto-stabilizer in the Prius did it's thing and halted the spin and kept us straight and on the road!
At least the Prius can do limited 4 wheel drive as well when needed. They really don't impress on gas millage, but that doesn't make them bad cars (especially for winter driving!)
Unless the snow is higher than their bottle cap wheels
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@johnhooks said:
@travisdh1 said:
@Dashrender said:
I can attest to this problem.
I was driving back from JB's part of the country (Chicago) and when from a dense wooded area to an open plain where the winds has enabled ice to form over the road.
I did the wrong thing and let off the gas as we approached and the instant we touched that ice we started spinning - luckily the built in auto-stabilizer in the Prius did it's thing and halted the spin and kept us straight and on the road!
At least the Prius can do limited 4 wheel drive as well when needed. They really don't impress on gas millage, but that doesn't make them bad cars (especially for winter driving!)
Unless the snow is higher than their bottle cap wheels
No worries, the driver's smug will lift the prius up and out of any hazardous road conditions....
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Did this thread evolve or de-evolve? I can't tell
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@travisdh1 said:
@Dashrender said:
I can attest to this problem.
I was driving back from JB's part of the country (Chicago) and when from a dense wooded area to an open plain where the winds has enabled ice to form over the road.
I did the wrong thing and let off the gas as we approached and the instant we touched that ice we started spinning - luckily the built in auto-stabilizer in the Prius did it's thing and halted the spin and kept us straight and on the road!
At least the Prius can do limited 4 wheel drive as well when needed. They really don't impress on gas millage, but that doesn't make them bad cars (especially for winter driving!)
I was unaware that the front rear wheels had motors in them? Unless you're saying the power recovery system (part of regenerative breaking) can somehow provide drive power to the wheels as well as regenerative breaking?
As for gas mileage - I've gotten over 70 mpg on several around town jaunts. Though normal non hyper-milin' driving puts me around 38.
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@RojoLoco said:
@johnhooks said:
@travisdh1 said:
@Dashrender said:
I can attest to this problem.
I was driving back from JB's part of the country (Chicago) and when from a dense wooded area to an open plain where the winds has enabled ice to form over the road.
I did the wrong thing and let off the gas as we approached and the instant we touched that ice we started spinning - luckily the built in auto-stabilizer in the Prius did it's thing and halted the spin and kept us straight and on the road!
At least the Prius can do limited 4 wheel drive as well when needed. They really don't impress on gas millage, but that doesn't make them bad cars (especially for winter driving!)
Unless the snow is higher than their bottle cap wheels
No worries, the driver's smug will lift the prius up and out of any hazardous road conditions....
Nice.. a little south park there, eh?
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@Dashrender said:
@travisdh1 said:
@Dashrender said:
I can attest to this problem.
I was driving back from JB's part of the country (Chicago) and when from a dense wooded area to an open plain where the winds has enabled ice to form over the road.
I did the wrong thing and let off the gas as we approached and the instant we touched that ice we started spinning - luckily the built in auto-stabilizer in the Prius did it's thing and halted the spin and kept us straight and on the road!
At least the Prius can do limited 4 wheel drive as well when needed. They really don't impress on gas millage, but that doesn't make them bad cars (especially for winter driving!)
I was unaware that the front rear wheels had motors in them? Unless you're saying the power recovery system (part of regenerative breaking) can somehow provide drive power to the wheels as well as regenerative breaking?
As for gas mileage - I've gotten over 70 mpg on several around town jaunts. Though normal non hyper-milin' driving puts me around 38.
I get around 35-40 in my Veloster.
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@scottalanmiller said:
Trust me, if your brakes are stopping you, you're not seeing the conditions we worry about and are driving in situations we consider tame. You can't get to your brakes at driving speed in a FWD without traction issues from the engine unless you are clutching it out first. We are talking about serious snow and ice here. If the issue is a dusting, then the issue is people not knowing how to drive. What is "six months of the year" driving in NY is unheard of, even for Toronto.
This is so true it hurts...
