What is your perspective on the overall tone of interactions here on ML?
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It's almost always possible to correct someone without being a jerk -- though it can be a challenge. It's impossible to control exactly how someone will perceive a correction or control how they'll respond to a correction.
I do agree with the OP about thread derailment. I'd rather see something like this.
Thread 1, Post 1, has an error. Post 2 corrects it. Post 3 argues post 2's correction. Forked thread for Post 4 - Post 100's debate on Post 2's correction. Once it's settled, return to Thread 1 to finish the discussion about Post 1's original point.
The above will probably never happen, but one can brainstorm :).
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@momurda said in What is your perspective on the overall tone of interactions here on ML?:
Sometimes the pedantry is a bit much. Don't care usually about people being rude assholes, cause I do that sometimes.
Thank you for using pedantry. That made my day. I love it when people use uncommon words.
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I think a lot of it boils down to whether or not we expect ML to be a site for people to be professionals, or be themselves.
I, for one, expect folks to be real. I'd act the same way face-to-face as I do in here or in a chat room. (I mean I even talk like I type, lol). I'd much rather us be ourselves here.
If you find someone rubbing you the wrong way in a thread, ask them to rub you the right way -- no, don't do that... um... kiss and make up... wait, not that either... take it out side and duel with roman candles.
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@dafyre said in What is your perspective on the overall tone of interactions here on ML?:
I think a lot of it boils down to whether or not we expect ML to be a site for people to be professionals, or be themselves.
I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. I think it's possible for someone to be themselves but follow the ideal of "don't be a dick."
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@eddiejennings said in What is your perspective on the overall tone of interactions here on ML?:
@dafyre said in What is your perspective on the overall tone of interactions here on ML?:
I think a lot of it boils down to whether or not we expect ML to be a site for people to be professionals, or be themselves.
I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. I think it's possible for someone to be themselves but follow the ideal of "don't be a dick."
I do not disagree.
One person's "being a dick" is another person's brutal honesty.
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I have a feeling we may be moving to an impasse.
In my experience I've found "brutal honesty" used to try to excuse the behavior of "being a dick." -
@eddiejennings said in What is your perspective on the overall tone of interactions here on ML?:
I have a feeling we may be moving to an impasse.
In my experience I've found "brutal honesty" used to try to excuse the behavior of "being a dick."<sarcasm>Did you not read my post?</sarcasm>
I said I agree with you, lol.
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@dafyre said in What is your perspective on the overall tone of interactions here on ML?:
@eddiejennings said in What is your perspective on the overall tone of interactions here on ML?:
I have a feeling we may be moving to an impasse.
In my experience I've found "brutal honesty" used to try to excuse the behavior of "being a dick."<sarcasm>Did you not read my post?</sarcasm>
I said I agree with you, lol.
I did read it
Then you typed "One person's "being a dick" is another person's brutal honesty." Which I'm not convinced is entirely true because [see previous post]. -
@dafyre said in What is your perspective on the overall tone of interactions here on ML?:
take it out side and duel with roman candles.
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@dafyre said in What is your perspective on the overall tone of interactions here on ML?:
I think a lot of it boils down to whether or not we expect ML to be a site for people to be professionals, or be themselves.
I, for one, expect folks to be real. I'd act the same way face-to-face as I do in here or in a chat room. (I mean I even talk like I type, lol). I'd much rather us be ourselves here.
If you find someone rubbing you the wrong way in a thread, ask them to rub you the right way -- no, don't do that... um... kiss and make up... wait, not that either... take it out side and duel with roman candles.
You're just tempting me to make @JaredBusch give me FFS in real life instead of just online.
Some people's attitude does rub me the wrong way at times around here, but I also realize there is a reason for the attitude, which makes me reevaluate things with better reasoning.
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@travisdh1 said in What is your perspective on the overall tone of interactions here on ML?:
@dafyre said in What is your perspective on the overall tone of interactions here on ML?:
I think a lot of it boils down to whether or not we expect ML to be a site for people to be professionals, or be themselves.
I, for one, expect folks to be real. I'd act the same way face-to-face as I do in here or in a chat room. (I mean I even talk like I type, lol). I'd much rather us be ourselves here.
If you find someone rubbing you the wrong way in a thread, ask them to rub you the right way -- no, don't do that... um... kiss and make up... wait, not that either... take it out side and duel with roman candles.
You're just tempting me to make @JaredBusch give me FFS in real life instead of just online.
I’m ready
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@kelly said in What is your perspective on the overall tone of interactions here on ML?:
Am I being too sensitive, or can this be a somewhat hostile place at times? (Telling me that I'm wrong here is not being hostile, btw.)
Nope, not oversensitive. It's very true that this can be quite a hostile place.
Two things I try to keep in mind.
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I'm an adult. I can choose to participate in the animosity or choose to ignore the assholes. I pick and choose what is useful here and to be honest, the useful stuff far outweighs all the other bullshit I see.
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I'm a professional. I know more than some, and some know much more than I. So I don't care too much if someone is going to be an asshole. Because if I post a question and I get useful information, I'm ahead, despite any animosity or hostility. If I post a response to a question, hopefully it's useful to someone. Of course, if I post a response and it is technically incorrect, I appreciate the responses that allow me to learn. Everything else gets ignored (most days).
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I like the tone, once you get used to it. It keeps you on your toes and makes you a better IT professional.
I do agree it can be harsh for new people, but honestly I dont give a fuck. I like the challenging attitude.
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I am not new anymore here but sometimes if there a big discussion and there is more arguing about the smallest point I don’t even engage because it would get blown over. That said most posts are with a technology perspective which might not be the beat subject to have feelings for.
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@dbeato said in What is your perspective on the overall tone of interactions here on ML?:
I am not new anymore here but sometimes if there a big discussion and there is more arguing about the smallest point I don’t even engage because it would get blown over. That said most posts are with a technology perspective which might not be the beat subject to have feelings for.
If the debate is truly healthy, it's not feelings for the point, but feelings for accuracy. Both sides, one hopes, are fighting not to be right, but to find the truth. It's good to have feelings for the truth.
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@scottalanmiller said in What is your perspective on the overall tone of interactions here on ML?:
@dbeato said in What is your perspective on the overall tone of interactions here on ML?:
I am not new anymore here but sometimes if there a big discussion and there is more arguing about the smallest point I don’t even engage because it would get blown over. That said most posts are with a technology perspective which might not be the beat subject to have feelings for.
If the debate is truly healthy, it's not feelings for the point, but feelings for accuracy. Both sides, one hopes, are fighting not to be right, but to find the truth. It's good to have feelings for the truth.
Yes, truth is what matters. I just have learned to not get too overly sensitive (although I have and can at times) with technology subjects.
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@irj said in What is your perspective on the overall tone of interactions here on ML?:
I like the tone, once you get used to it. It keeps you on your toes and makes you a better IT professional.
I do agree it can be harsh for new people, but honestly I dont give a fuck. I like the challenging attitude.
I feel the same. This is a discussion forum, not a QA site. Everything is open to be challenged, even if it wasn't the main topic of the post. Sometimes people's assumptions need to be identified and challenged before a question can really be answered.
Imagine what kind of power trip @scottalanmiller could go on if no one challenged some of his posts head on
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@flaxking said in What is your perspective on the overall tone of interactions here on ML?:
@irj said in What is your perspective on the overall tone of interactions here on ML?:
I like the tone, once you get used to it. It keeps you on your toes and makes you a better IT professional.
I do agree it can be harsh for new people, but honestly I dont give a fuck. I like the challenging attitude.
I feel the same. This is a discussion forum, not a QA site. Everything is open to be challenged, even if it wasn't the main topic of the post. Sometimes people's assumptions need to be identified and challenged before a question can really be answered.
Imagine what kind of power trip @scottalanmiller is no one challenged some of his posts head on
We have @JaredBusch for that
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I figured I'd let the conversation run for awhile before putting my oar back in. It sounds like some of what I've said has been misunderstood. I am rarely offended or "hurt" by anything said here. I am not interested in creating an IT "safe space". If I am being an idiot then I expect that I will be told such. That is part and parcel for the people that frequent ML.
What has bothered me (not made me feel rejected, but made me question if this is what I want in a community) is the pedantry (thank you @momurda) or excessive focus on something that is tangential to the problem at hand. Accuracy is important, but communication can be retarded by accuracy. When someone has to sift through pages of posts about something unrelated to the OP because one person misused a term in an answer and someone else called them out on it and the back and forth carried on for some time I wonder about the value achieved in the back and forth.
This isn't about me, or how people have responded to my posts in particular (after rereading the Miscellaneous Tech News thread I realized that I did overreact and that there was a valuable discussion), but about what we want ML to be. It sounds like the majority prefer it this way, and that is fine. I figured I'd bring up the discussion and see what y'all thought.
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And the, of course, there is the question of "when to fork". Just because a conversation should happen, doesn't always mean it should happen in the same place. But it's a hard call in a lot of cases, because forking pulls part of one discussion into another and the breaks aren't always clean.
