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    Testing oVirt...

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    ovirt supermicro red hat virtualization kvm gluster hyperconverged centos7
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    • FATeknollogeeF
      FATeknollogee @scottalanmiller
      last edited by

      @scottalanmiller said in Testing oVirt...:

      @fateknollogee said in Testing oVirt...:

      Hardware RAID is recommended instead of MDADM.

      By whom?

      By the oVirt devs.
      You can go & look for RHs best practice for RHEV, it also says use HW RAID.

      scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • stacksofplatesS
        stacksofplates @scottalanmiller
        last edited by

        @scottalanmiller said in Testing oVirt...:

        @stacksofplates said in Testing oVirt...:

        @dustinb3403 said in Testing oVirt...:

        @fateknollogee said in Testing oVirt...:

        @dustinb3403 said in Testing oVirt...:

        @fateknollogee Hardware RAID is recommended because a lot of people lack the practice and skill with software RAID to appropriately maintain/troubleshoot/fix software raid.

        Plus you often get features like Blind swap.

        Nope...
        The folks at RH say, currently, performance is better with HW RAID & that is how most of their testing/validation is done.

        That's odd, but okay. I would generally think they make the recommendation because they know there is a huge lack of understanding on how software raid needs to be managed.

        I'm also guessing it's because RAID isn't necessarily needed. The overhead for software RAID doesn't gain much if you're bricks are replicated anyway.

        But the overhead of hardware RAID wouldn't gain anything, either.

        It doesn't pull anything from the OS though. SW would actually use resources the system could use. So the only thing you would see is less capacity.

        scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • scottalanmillerS
          scottalanmiller @stacksofplates
          last edited by

          @stacksofplates said in Testing oVirt...:

          @scottalanmiller said in Testing oVirt...:

          @stacksofplates said in Testing oVirt...:

          @dustinb3403 said in Testing oVirt...:

          @fateknollogee said in Testing oVirt...:

          @dustinb3403 said in Testing oVirt...:

          @fateknollogee Hardware RAID is recommended because a lot of people lack the practice and skill with software RAID to appropriately maintain/troubleshoot/fix software raid.

          Plus you often get features like Blind swap.

          Nope...
          The folks at RH say, currently, performance is better with HW RAID & that is how most of their testing/validation is done.

          That's odd, but okay. I would generally think they make the recommendation because they know there is a huge lack of understanding on how software raid needs to be managed.

          I'm also guessing it's because RAID isn't necessarily needed. The overhead for software RAID doesn't gain much if you're bricks are replicated anyway.

          But the overhead of hardware RAID wouldn't gain anything, either.

          It doesn't pull anything from the OS though. SW would actually use resources the system could use. So the only thing you would see is less capacity.

          Sort of, but the CPU overhead of software RAID is nominal, but as it is faster than hardware RAID and storage is the common bottleneck, it normally makes the system faster rather than slower.

          So in CPU terms, there is a small overhead to software RAID that you normally can't notice. But to the overall system, there is normally a negative overhead, meaning you get more out of your server, rather than less.

          KellyK 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
          • scottalanmillerS
            scottalanmiller @FATeknollogee
            last edited by

            @fateknollogee said in Testing oVirt...:

            @scottalanmiller said in Testing oVirt...:

            @fateknollogee said in Testing oVirt...:

            Hardware RAID is recommended instead of MDADM.

            By whom?

            By the oVirt devs.
            You can go & look for RHs best practice for RHEV, it also says use HW RAID.

            I don't trust any recommendation that doesn't include the logic as to why. Likely their logic is "because most of our users don't know how to do MD and we don't want to be asked questions" or "we are sponsored by server vendors" or "our users always have hardware RAID already and it can't easily be disabled and they get confused" or "we think it's what people want to hear."

            FreeNAS recommends software RAID, but if you dig into "why" it's based on selling more support and has nothing to do with what is good for the customer.

            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
            • KellyK
              Kelly @scottalanmiller
              last edited by

              @scottalanmiller said in Testing oVirt...:

              @stacksofplates said in Testing oVirt...:

              @scottalanmiller said in Testing oVirt...:

              @stacksofplates said in Testing oVirt...:

              @dustinb3403 said in Testing oVirt...:

              @fateknollogee said in Testing oVirt...:

              @dustinb3403 said in Testing oVirt...:

              @fateknollogee Hardware RAID is recommended because a lot of people lack the practice and skill with software RAID to appropriately maintain/troubleshoot/fix software raid.

              Plus you often get features like Blind swap.

              Nope...
              The folks at RH say, currently, performance is better with HW RAID & that is how most of their testing/validation is done.

              That's odd, but okay. I would generally think they make the recommendation because they know there is a huge lack of understanding on how software raid needs to be managed.

              I'm also guessing it's because RAID isn't necessarily needed. The overhead for software RAID doesn't gain much if you're bricks are replicated anyway.

              But the overhead of hardware RAID wouldn't gain anything, either.

              It doesn't pull anything from the OS though. SW would actually use resources the system could use. So the only thing you would see is less capacity.

              Sort of, but the CPU overhead of software RAID is nominal, but as it is faster than hardware RAID and storage is the common bottleneck, it normally makes the system faster rather than slower.

              So in CPU terms, there is a small overhead to software RAID that you normally can't notice. But to the overall system, there is normally a negative overhead, meaning you get more out of your server, rather than less.

              I am curious (not arguing, but wanting to learn) what resources you have that show a performance comparison between software and hardware RAID.

              scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • scottalanmillerS
                scottalanmiller @Kelly
                last edited by

                @kelly said in Testing oVirt...:

                @scottalanmiller said in Testing oVirt...:

                @stacksofplates said in Testing oVirt...:

                @scottalanmiller said in Testing oVirt...:

                @stacksofplates said in Testing oVirt...:

                @dustinb3403 said in Testing oVirt...:

                @fateknollogee said in Testing oVirt...:

                @dustinb3403 said in Testing oVirt...:

                @fateknollogee Hardware RAID is recommended because a lot of people lack the practice and skill with software RAID to appropriately maintain/troubleshoot/fix software raid.

                Plus you often get features like Blind swap.

                Nope...
                The folks at RH say, currently, performance is better with HW RAID & that is how most of their testing/validation is done.

                That's odd, but okay. I would generally think they make the recommendation because they know there is a huge lack of understanding on how software raid needs to be managed.

                I'm also guessing it's because RAID isn't necessarily needed. The overhead for software RAID doesn't gain much if you're bricks are replicated anyway.

                But the overhead of hardware RAID wouldn't gain anything, either.

                It doesn't pull anything from the OS though. SW would actually use resources the system could use. So the only thing you would see is less capacity.

                Sort of, but the CPU overhead of software RAID is nominal, but as it is faster than hardware RAID and storage is the common bottleneck, it normally makes the system faster rather than slower.

                So in CPU terms, there is a small overhead to software RAID that you normally can't notice. But to the overall system, there is normally a negative overhead, meaning you get more out of your server, rather than less.

                I am curious (not arguing, but wanting to learn) what resources you have that show a performance comparison between software and hardware RAID.

                I'll have to research, but I know that it was standard certification material that 2000 was the inflection year when normal servers software RAID pulled ahead of hardware RAID. It was the Pentium IIIs processor that made the difference. It was the first time that the average server had so much space CPU capacity that using a trivial amount for software RAID didn't affect the main system, and that the main CPUs were so dramatically fast compared to the cheap chips doing the hardware offloading that it made software generally faster than hardware.

                This is also why hardware RAID is exclusive to the IA32 world. The big RISC server processors like Power, Sparc, PA-RISC and Alpha from the 1990s never had, and still don't, have hardware RAID options because they had excess CPU power and software RAID was faster on them from day one. So hardware RAID just never became a thing in those markets. It started exclusively because the old Intel chips prior to the P3s (that is not plural, it is the "S" model) were so underpowered.

                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                • FATeknollogeeF
                  FATeknollogee
                  last edited by

                  Either way, at the end of the day, RAID controllers are like cars...
                  People go with what they're comfortable with....you can argue (aka debate) the merits of one vs. the other.
                  Me, I could go either way.

                  scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • scottalanmillerS
                    scottalanmiller @FATeknollogee
                    last edited by

                    @fateknollogee said in Testing oVirt...:

                    Either way, at the end of the day, RAID controllers are like cars...
                    People go with what they're comfortable with....you can argue (aka debate) the merits of one vs. the other.
                    Me, I could go either way.

                    They shouldn't be treated that way. Each has a place and each should be used where appropriate. Not much in IT should come down to opinion, it should be "appropriate addressing of the business case."

                    FATeknollogeeF 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                    • FATeknollogeeF
                      FATeknollogee @scottalanmiller
                      last edited by

                      @scottalanmiller said in Testing oVirt...:

                      @fateknollogee said in Testing oVirt...:

                      Either way, at the end of the day, RAID controllers are like cars...
                      People go with what they're comfortable with....you can argue (aka debate) the merits of one vs. the other.
                      Me, I could go either way.

                      They shouldn't be treated that way. Each has a place and each should be used where appropriate. Not much in IT should come down to opinion, it should be "appropriate addressing of the business case."

                      You are right, it shouldn't but I live in the real world & that's just how it goes.
                      You aren't going to save the planet :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

                      scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • FATeknollogeeF
                        FATeknollogee
                        last edited by

                        Gluster Storage Network:
                        bond 0 is 2 x 10gbE interfaces - Mode 6 Adaptive Load Balancing (balance-alb)

                        eno1:
                        ovirtmgmt - Management network

                        eno2:
                        Virtual machine traffic

                        0_1533699935739_screenshot_31.png

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                        • scottalanmillerS
                          scottalanmiller @FATeknollogee
                          last edited by

                          @fateknollogee said in Testing oVirt...:

                          @scottalanmiller said in Testing oVirt...:

                          @fateknollogee said in Testing oVirt...:

                          Either way, at the end of the day, RAID controllers are like cars...
                          People go with what they're comfortable with....you can argue (aka debate) the merits of one vs. the other.
                          Me, I could go either way.

                          They shouldn't be treated that way. Each has a place and each should be used where appropriate. Not much in IT should come down to opinion, it should be "appropriate addressing of the business case."

                          You are right, it shouldn't but I live in the real world & that's just how it goes.
                          You aren't going to save the planet :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

                          No, but I can save a lot of IT pros.

                          coliverC 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                          • coliverC
                            coliver @scottalanmiller
                            last edited by

                            @scottalanmiller said in Testing oVirt...:

                            @fateknollogee said in Testing oVirt...:

                            @scottalanmiller said in Testing oVirt...:

                            @fateknollogee said in Testing oVirt...:

                            Either way, at the end of the day, RAID controllers are like cars...
                            People go with what they're comfortable with....you can argue (aka debate) the merits of one vs. the other.
                            Me, I could go either way.

                            They shouldn't be treated that way. Each has a place and each should be used where appropriate. Not much in IT should come down to opinion, it should be "appropriate addressing of the business case."

                            You are right, it shouldn't but I live in the real world & that's just how it goes.
                            You aren't going to save the planet :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

                            No, but I can save a lot of businesses from "IT pros".

                            FTFY.

                            JaredBuschJ 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                            • JaredBuschJ
                              JaredBusch @coliver
                              last edited by

                              @coliver said in Testing oVirt...:

                              @scottalanmiller said in Testing oVirt...:

                              @fateknollogee said in Testing oVirt...:

                              @scottalanmiller said in Testing oVirt...:

                              @fateknollogee said in Testing oVirt...:

                              Either way, at the end of the day, RAID controllers are like cars...
                              People go with what they're comfortable with....you can argue (aka debate) the merits of one vs. the other.
                              Me, I could go either way.

                              They shouldn't be treated that way. Each has a place and each should be used where appropriate. Not much in IT should come down to opinion, it should be "appropriate addressing of the business case."

                              You are right, it shouldn't but I live in the real world & that's just how it goes.
                              You aren't going to save the planet :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

                              No, but I can save a lot of businesses from "IT pros".

                              FTFY.

                              Hahahahah

                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • FATeknollogeeF
                                FATeknollogee
                                last edited by FATeknollogee

                                Starting to test some backups of vm's on oVirt & standalone KVM:

                                vProtect 3.6
                                0_1534446893494_vp36.png

                                oVirt VMs:
                                0_1534446962370_ovirt.png

                                Standalone KVM VMs:
                                0_1534446987121_kvm.png

                                RomoR 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                                • RomoR
                                  Romo @FATeknollogee
                                  last edited by

                                  @fateknollogee Free for standalone KVM hosts, this seems interesting. Please share your testing results =).

                                  0_1534462428890_storware-vprotect.png

                                  scottalanmillerS JaredBuschJ FATeknollogeeF matteo nunziatiM 4 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 4
                                  • scottalanmillerS
                                    scottalanmiller @Romo
                                    last edited by

                                    @romo we've got several places where we might want to use that, and more soon.

                                    JaredBuschJ 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • JaredBuschJ
                                      JaredBusch @scottalanmiller
                                      last edited by

                                      @scottalanmiller said in Testing oVirt...:

                                      @romo we've got several places where we might want to use that, and more soon.

                                      Why? Agentless VM Level backups are useless. You've said that often enough.

                                      FATeknollogeeF scottalanmillerS matteo nunziatiM 3 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                      • JaredBuschJ
                                        JaredBusch @Romo
                                        last edited by

                                        @romo said in Testing oVirt...:

                                        @fateknollogee Free for standalone KVM hosts, this seems interesting. Please share your testing results =).

                                        What is a stand alone KVM host? I'm not seeing it
                                        https://storware.gitbook.io/storware-vprotect

                                        FATeknollogeeF 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • JaredBuschJ
                                          JaredBusch
                                          last edited by

                                          Trial sign up form
                                          https://storware.eu/en/contact-2/

                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • FATeknollogeeF
                                            FATeknollogee @JaredBusch
                                            last edited by

                                            @jaredbusch said in Testing oVirt...:

                                            @romo said in Testing oVirt...:

                                            @fateknollogee Free for standalone KVM hosts, this seems interesting. Please share your testing results =).

                                            What is a stand alone KVM host? I'm not seeing it
                                            https://storware.gitbook.io/storware-vprotect

                                            Standalone meaning your "normal" Virt-manager style KVM install.

                                            scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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